Do SLA's retain the alignment descriptions of the spells they're based on?


Rules Questions


For example, can a (not-evil) Daemon-spawn tiefling use his Death Knell SLA without having alignment issues?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes.
No.


SLAs pretty much are the spell, they specifically remove/alter the things that are different.
So why would you think this is different when it isn't called out?
There seems as much basis here as asking "Is Fireball SLA still Evocation"? (yes)


I think that is the kind of spell where the 'evil' description is not some arbitrary category. You have to intentionally finish off a dying and helpless creature.

I mean, if it was some type of animal or other nonsentient creature, I could vaguely see it being less of an issue. You could theoretically eat them without moral issues, so it could be construed like that. But This is basically stabbing a helpless opponent.

It does look like it could be helpful in finishing off opponents with regeneration if you hadn't shut it off yet.


Ah well. I was mainly curious as the Daemon spawn tiefling is the only one with ability modifiers that are at least semi-useful for a Magus and has a first level spell for their SLA. Guess he'll either be Neutral or just never actually use his SLA.


Technically speaking, only clerics have restrictions regarding using spells with alignment descriptors. There's no actual rule that using an [evil] descriptor spell actually makes you evil, so that'd be purely GM discretion as to how he's handling alignment.


Using it should push your alignment 'some amount' towards Evil, but that doesn't mean you would actually stop being Good, unless you were already near the line, and doing Good acts as you should be doing to remain Good anyways probably counteracts it. Like Dasrak said, up to GM discretion, but I can't see it being unusable including in PFS.

Standard Tieflings seem to have better stat modifiers than Daemon Spawn, with a better Will Save and the same stat bonuses.
Or perhaps I'm not getting your point about the SLA being '1st level', what is your interest in that?
Death Knell is only 1st level for Anti-Paladins anyways, and Paizo developers have said SLAs use Wiz/Cleric spell levels if they exist.
I'm not sure the problem with other variant Tieflings, Oni Spawn have +STR and +WIS while only suffering a penalty to CHA, and Asura's +DEX and +WIS with INT penalty is workable (it's not like you are relying on maxed DCs).

Liberty's Edge

Can a good character use an evil spell or SLA if he's not a cleric? By RAW, I think so.

Does it still count as an evil spell/SLA? Absolutely. SLAs emulate most aspects of the spells they're based on, including descriptors.


Aaand it's not going to work as planned after all. It's a divine spell, and only level one for anti-paladins anyhow. The only way I can see to get an SLA that's a first level arcane spell is to get lucky on the d100 chart and roll the Ventriloquism SLA. Maybe I'll just have to accept that he'll need to dip Sorcerer to qualify for Dragon Disciple after all.


well, yeah, that's why you're supposed to have an "existing arcane spellcasting class" for DD.
if you were basing this on SKR's comments on SLA's, i would hardly place much faith in that, it's not an official FAQ,
by RAW SLAs don't have arcane/divine typing, and not qualifying for casting PrCs is hardly a surprise.


I realize now that I didn't mention that I do have an existing arcane class - Magus. I've been trying to figure a way to build a demoralizing transmogrifist magus who can get into Dragon Disciple without having to dip into a different casting class first. I was hoping to find a variant SLA that would meet the "non-prepared first level arcane" criteria, but I may just do Preferred Spell instead (which is also less than ideal as I didn't envision him as super focused on any one spell).


Personally if I were to build a Magus Dragon Disciple (which sounds like it could be a lot of fun actually) - I'd probably consider building him with either a level of draconic sorcerer already (pick a dragon color with electricity for a boost to your shocking grasps...) or with a level of Arcane Duelist Bard (minor party buff a few rounds a day with bardic performance, nice selection of wands opened up w/o UMD, free Arcane Strike feat for slight boost to damage for a swift action - good for a magus doing multiple attacks via spell combat..., lots of skills and a handful of spells you can cast w/o preparation.

(I'd probably pick spells that don't rely on saves - i.e. buffs or things like Timely Inspiration that may save a party member's actions in the future)

You can certainly apply the DD boost to arcane class levels to your magus levels - though remember that you will only gain additional spell slots - you won't get free spells known like a spontaneous caster nor will you advance any of your Magus class features - so you will be a bit weaker than a straight magus - but with a boosted STR and a bunch of nice HP and other DD features like claws, bite and natural armor (and some resistances)


You might like my spontaneous casting Sorceror Bloodline Magus Archetype: here


ZanThrax wrote:
Ah well. I was mainly curious as the Daemon spawn tiefling is the only one with ability modifiers that are at least semi-useful for a Magus and has a first level spell for their SLA. Guess he'll either be Neutral or just never actually use his SLA.

Trade your SLA for an ability off the chart. Devil's Sight is extremely awesome!


Quandary, that's really cool, and would pretty much fit perfectly for the character I have in mind. Maybe I'll just shelve the idea until such time as we're far enough along with Pathfinder to consider homebrew ideas.

Devil Sight most certainly is awesome (I even rolled it for a terrifying lawyer monk I made last week), but I feel like a (bigger) munchkin just outright picking off the chart (unless I pick something weak and / or crappy that's thematically appropriate). If I was going to just pick, I'd pick +2 Int anyhow.


I found a build that I like. I wound up embracing the Sorcerer level - it allowed me to get the familiar arcana and the improved familiar feat at the same time (I've always felt it's a little weird to get a regular familiar fully intending to replace the critter shortly afterwards) and the option of switching attack spells to acid when needed.

Wound up with only one hex, but since it was mainly the curses that were interesting given the concept, that's okay. Since he's meant to focus on polymorphing himself for combat, I think that the best use of the spell perfection might actually be one of the Monstrous Physique spells to get the free quicken.

Arrisal

Daemon-Spawn Tiefling:

T: Magical Knack, Outlander - Lore Seeker (Chill Touch, Frostbite, SG)
M1 F: Monstrous Mask, Arcane Pool, Spell Combat
M2: Spellstrike
M3: F: Power Attack, Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
S1: Crossblooded Shaitan/Draconic(Black)
M4: Hex: Flight, F: Cornugon Smash
M5: BF: Combat Expertise
M6: Arcana: Familiar, F: Improved Familiar (Cacodaemon)
DD1: Blood of Dragons, NA +1
DD2: F: Moonlight Stalker, Str +2 BBF: Blindfight, Bite
DD3: Breath Weapon
DD4: F: Intensify Spell, Str +2, NA+1
DD5: Blindsense 30', BBF: Quicken Spell
DD6: F: Empower Spell, Con +2
DD7: Dragon Form, NA +1
DD8: F: Spell Perfection, Int +2, BBF: Improved Initiative
M7: Knowledge Pool, Medium Armour
M8: F: Spell Pen, Improved Spell Combat
M9: Arcana: Bane Weapon
M10: F: Greater Spell Pen, Fighter Training
M11: BF: Enforcer, Spell Recall

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