greater stealth or cleave would be feats, which they're calling feats.
merit badges are (one of) the things you need to qualify for feats, not the feats themselves.
I don't like 'Merit Badge' because it's the sort of thing that you pin to your uniform, which these really aren't.
The idea is not about collecting physical objects, but that EVENTS or ACTIONS you did are fulfilling pre-reqs.
(or 'defining your character', etc)
I think Urman's idea is decent, but just call them 'Deeds', period.
That is suggestive of the idea that these may be good deeds, evil deeds, righteous deeds, dastardly deeds, etc.*
Deed is pretty similar to 'Accomplishment' but has a rougher, old-school medieval tone.
* This makes me think of 'deeper' levels of Divination beyond Detect Alignment, could actually discern the Deeds somebody has, which may reveal more than their current alignment/reputation...
Goblin Squad Member
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Merit Badges sounds good.
Agreed... though now that I think about it... that is what Boy Scouts earn...
I like where someone suggested "feats." Feats does cover active abilities and passive upgrades. Unless there is something else in game being called feats, I think this would work.
Mark of dedication
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Goblin Squad Member
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Secret? As in 'You have learned the Secret of Greater Stealth!' 'You have revealed the Secret of Cleaving Opponents in Twain!' Eh, maybe you're right, Drakhan.
Riddle!!!
The riddle of Plate mail. The riddle of greater evocation. The riddle of metal domain!!!
Merit badges is the boy scouts no way.
Mark of dedication was a good suggestion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Feat are things you buy/train, very similar to skills.
Merit badges (to be renamed) are things you earn by doing things in-game. These are not just part of your build, but also your character's history (and potentially bragging rights). The name should be more about what you have done that what you can do.
Thus "deeds", "achievements", "merits", "accomplishments" etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like Deed - it tells what its about. You have spent time (gaining experience) and accomplished the task to spend that experience...you've done the deed. Names that keep things simple and easily bring to mind what they mean are usually best.
Now...it's not as snappy as Goblin Balls, but... (sorry Ryan). :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It shouldn't be hard to name each deed because it would be related to the associated ability you gained on completion. 'Sarenraes' Light' could be the name of the Deed you completed to add channel positive energy to your holy symbol or the like. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deed Eventually maybe you could bring up a screen to look over all the stuff you've done or somehow strut them in front of other bozos if that floats your boat. As I think Quandary mentioned, looking up someones' deeds with the use of spells/abilities could be a way to gauge the power of some clown you're thinking of confronting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like a special case of system emotes that can't be spoofed that we could use to display the fact that we accomplished a particular Deed.Does that risk the annoyance of "We're not letting you join our group until you demonstrate that you've done X"?
Is that necessarily a bad thing?
I don't know that it will have much applicability in PFO, but I've often thought it would be great to have Challenges that players would have to face solo which would test their ability to do certain key things. For example: test a Tank's ability to keep aggro on an ever-growing number of adds; or test a DPS's ability to deal damage without taking aggro; etc.
Knowing your group members capability is a good thing.
Yes, some would use it to exclude inexperienced players. No doubt, others would use it as a tool to help those inexperienced players improve.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like a special case of system emotes that can't be spoofed that we could use to display the fact that we accomplished a particular Deed.Does that risk the annoyance of "We're not letting you join our group until you demonstrate that you've done X"?
Doesn't each Deed open up a suite or kit of archetype abilities? It also shows you're committed to a certain role/cause, so, yeah, I can imagine a NE cult demanding you have the 'Blood on Your Hands' Deed in order to join (opens up some assasination features?). This also opens up great RPing possibilities because to truly penetrate an organisation a mole would have to go for the long con. As opposed to disguising yourself as an NPC and trying to assasinate a target in the market-the short con.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm guessing 'Deed' will be used for 'structure deeds', that are required to start building a structure.
Commonly a deed refers to a single action, not a series of accomplishments. I would call each requirement to a badge a 'deed' but not the badge its self.
The most accurate word would probably be 'certificate',
deed--;
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm thinking of Deed as 'Something that is done' and 'An illustrious action.' We can capitalize it and make it our own, no? Badges have a whiff of law enforcement and boy scouts; OK, cool, but not exactly High Fantasy stuff. Medals and Achievements are all over other MMOs so we can be distinctive. Deeds. Gritty.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would call Merit Badges "Experience" and the current Experience "Training Time".
The idea being that you are constantly training yourself over time, but the specific actions you do grant you experience in real-world application.
A soldier who has never seen battle may be well trained during his time in service, but he lacks combat experience.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Merit Badge = mastery level doesn't it? Ie your stripes or belt in the military or martial arts for eg. It's a symbol or milestone along the path. Badges in FPS games was alluded to and again I think that's similar or used similarly.
There's achievements which might be a different system to merit badges which are achievements within a path. Achievements could be general eg slayed more goblins via archery than anyone etc.
Badges, belts and stripes... anymore along these lines? Not to say Accolades or Deeds are not good enough. Certificate of Attainment perhaps?! Colors are another system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would call Merit Badges "Experience" and the current Experience "Training Time".
The idea being that you are constantly training yourself over time, but the specific actions you do grant you experience in real-world application.
A soldier who has never seen battle may be well trained during his time in service, but he lacks combat experience.
The problem with experience is it's already being used for another game mechanic, like feats. In PFO experience is what you accumulate to start the character process rolling. Training Time is something else already also. 'Levels' would give the wrong impression of how the game works from the get-go.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought feats were purchased the same way as skills? Perhaps I missed something somewhere...
I thought all advancement was purchased through a Time-Accrued system (currently called experience) and an Action-Accrued system (currently called merits).
Is that not the case? What portion do I have wrong?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like the name Deed for a low level tier accomplishment and Accolade for a higher tier accomplishment. I could also see the naming structure being different for single character vs group/company accomplishments.
I think the Deed: Saving Captain's Flagon would refer to an event, quest/series completion.
In contrast the Accolade: Savior of Bartenders would refer either to repetition or mastery in one deeds or of a set of deeds that are similar in nature (or possibly linked).
Another tier could be added for Mastery or Badge of XYZ. This would be especially appropriate for crafting or a limited resource grouping (so there can only be only be 6 Masters of XYZ).
For groups of people or whole settlements, you could have Achievement, Crusade, Triumph, Commission, Coup depending on the circumstance involved. I would love there to be different accomplishment names for tiered events or conquests.
Nonetheless, thinking of these as flags to allow and deny access to certain areas can be a slippery slope if you take it too far. You need to have a mixture of social / exploration / PvP attained "Deeds" and those "Deed" requirements for certain groups/classes/advanced training.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think we also need more clarification on how specific these merits are.
Do I get Combat specific merits for combat actions? Or do I get Sword specific merits for using a sword? I would imagine the former, otherwise I can run out with a Sword and start leveling up an Axe. But maybe we are okay with that level of abstraction. The other side of the fence is having one type of Merit for each Skill, Feat, Class Feature, Trait, or what have you. But the specificness of the merit would go a long way towards appropriate naming.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought feats were purchased the same way as skills? Perhaps I missed something somewhere...
I thought all advancement was purchased through a Time-Accrued system (currently called experience) and an Action-Accrued system (currently called merits).
Is that not the case? What portion do I have wrong?
I think you have it right. The point of the thread is to come up with a new cool NAME for 'merit badge' 'cause that sounds like something you wear for knitting a yarn and beer-can collage. No disrespect to macrame enthusiasts, you understand-I'll even come by your in-game shop. Can't guarantee I'll buy anything, though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is that necessarily a bad thing?I'd like a special case of system emotes that can't be spoofed that we could use to display the fact that we accomplished a particular Deed.Does that risk the annoyance of "We're not letting you join our group until you demonstrate that you've done X"?
Yes. WoW has a history of proving interesting ideas bad. You may not have had to deal with GearScore, but I have. They take all your equipment and reduce it to a single number to exclude players who might be really good in favour of the players who just bought the best equipment. Also amking people prove they've been through a Raid via achievement before they'll let you join on said Raid.
It became a system where you'd never get to go into a Raid because you didn't have the achievement showing you'd been or you didn't have the gear from it to increase your gearscore to get into it.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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What I think we are trying to rename is "merit badge"; it's what other games might call acheivements. If not for the homonym with the ownership of a plot or building, I think deed would be the best term.
"Certificate" is best used in the same sense as EvE: something that you get for having the feats and abilities specified on the cert, to provide traing goals to people.
I think that further exploration of types of terms is warranted before we get too heavily invested in any one answer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You may not have had to deal with GearScore, but I have.
I am quite familiar with GearScore. It's fundamentally different from what I'm talking about. There's also a very significant difference between what I suggested and making people prove they've been through a Raid by linking their Achievement first. In fact, I would suggest that there are enough fundamental differences between WoW and PFO that any comparisons of superficially similar systems is meaningless.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They are not really Achievements in the traditional sense though. They are actually a form of currency used for doing something that can only be spent towards training. They cannot be hung on the wall and probably do not show up to other people inspecting your character.
Of course, my understanding may be jaded by assumption.
Let's say I earn 5 Badges of Swordsmanship [Attack]
The Swords trainer has the following...
Sword Specialization 1 (1 Swordsmanship)
Sword Specialization 2 (SS1 + 2 Swordsmanship)
Sword Specialization 3 (SS2 + 6 Swordsmanship)
BAB +1 (1 Attack)
BAB +2 (BAB 1 + 2 Attack)
BAB +3 (BAB 2 + 5 Attack)
If I Train BAB1 and SS1, do I now have 3 badges? Or am I able to buy all the way up to BAB3 and SS2 because I have reached the 5 badge threshold (assuming I have the XP)?
I think we may need more information about how this system works before we even discuss terms.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's fundamentally different from what I'm talking about.
Unfortunately, the emergent behaviour we're all looking forward to will be accompanied by the inevitable a$$holery we're concerned about. I've as-yet seen no GW-provided mechanism to avoid it; an excellent argument can be made that GW will allow GearScore, prior achievement requirement, and any other form of emotional or psychological cruelty until we the players put a stop to it...somehow.