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I'm sure this isn't a new topic, but I am building a cleric and for no good reason agonizing over which deity to worship. I simply can't decide based on what the "best build" is - I am deciding between Iomedade or Sarenrae. Both are strong choices game-wise.
I want the choice to be internally consistent with what my character might decide in the game world. The character is coming from either Nirmathas or Andoran. In the Pathfinder wiki, neither nation has Sarenrae listed among its main deities.
Since her faith is spread by Qadira, would the average person from these free-spirited nations view her faith as a cultural imposition? Due to the real-world parallels, could this mean that an Andoran (American) would view Qadiran (Persia/Arabia) beliefs much the same way as modern Americans often view Islam? Which really means that they could worhsip whoever, they just might be in a minority.
I was all set to do a cleric of Iomedae, even if only for the novelty of it (I don't want to play a paladin, exactly). Still, I had a hard time understanding what her faith entails? Fight for justice, uphold personal honor, protect weak/innocent from evil? Is there something I'm missing? What would a sermon at one of her weekly services sound like?
Sarenrae has the main features of the Christian God of our world, but a lot of in-game cultural baggage froma certain perspective.
I guess this shouldn't be so difficult, but I REALLY get into character building (not just optimizing, but creating a person that seems real to me) and world lore, so I'm just trying to understand all I can.
I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments on this topic. Thanks!
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Iomedae strikes me as a more naive/idealistic goddess.
When you worship Iomedae, you are always striving for more.
Sarenrae is more pragmatic IMO, and somewhat dancing between laxism (too much redemption) and fanaticism (too much killing the unredeemable).
When you worship Sarenrae, you are always trying to keep this balancing act.
Really it all depends on your character. What is his take on life ? What things are important to him ? Why did he choose to become a Cleric.
You could even try to imagine two characters : one a Cleric of sarenrae, the other of Iomedae and choose the one you prefer. You can even play one for some time and change to the other one if it does not work and your GM agrees.
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Some info from the Pathfinder Chronicles: Gods and Magic book:
Iomedae was a Paladin of Aroden (a now-dead god) who ascended to godhood. Her followers are knightly and chivalrous, and support justice, kindness, honor, etc. Iomedae is a warrior, but not a war goddess--honorable surrender is preferred to fighting to the death. Her followers respect kind and honorable authority figures (i.e. Lawful Good), and always strive to set a good example, some refusing to enter cities if they are dirty, opting to bathe and wash off their gear outside the city.
Sarenrae, on the other hand, is more of a good-aligned sun goddess. Lots of sun worship. Goodness and kindness are encouraged, as well as redeeming evil. However, her followers are also relentless in trying to destroy evil that they deem beyond redemption. I don't think she's quite so regional as you may think? Her centers of worship are largely in desert regions, but she's a fairly major goddess (especially as a goddess of healing). Her followers seem to especially hate wanton destruction.
It really depends on the culture that worships the deities also. The fluff for Pharasma for example suggests she is a guide to the dead. However in one of the Golarion nations (Ustlav maybe?) she is seen more as a dour punishment; the inevitable judge who heaps on misery to those who truck with the black forces of the land.
In my homebrew campaign I haven't explored Iomedae very well. I have however explored many versions of Saranrae's clergy. In Karnoss Saranrae is an old goddess and her dancing and curved sword hearken back to barbarous hill-folk along the coast; my world's version of Vikings.
Anyway, so as the land has civilized and modernized, the ancient barbarian ways have ironically been ritualized and actually turned Lawful in their nature. These parishioners are the Whirling Blades; monks mostly who worship the Dawnflower as a symbol of both release and joy. They use battle and dance equally to honor her gifts and protect the innocent her light alone cannot save.
Then there are many small shrines kept and maintained by priest-artisans, travelers and performers. These Neutral-tilted faithful revel in the Glory aspect of Saranrae with secondary focus on either Sun, Good or sometimes Healing. They range between hedonistic fanatics to quiet gypsy-style entertainers. This culture sees the Lady of Light as a kindly guide through a redeemed and redeeming life; she sets an example that others must choose to follow for none can be forced to this way.
Finally in Karnoss there are the standard churches of The Healing Light. Here kindly nuns or priests dole out helpful advice, healing and social justice. These are like village parishes in rural Ireland or England; the clergy means well, is a bit nosy, and generally just wants to make people's lives better. Those few clerics or oracles in these types of environs closely resemble the stereotypical "Cleric" from older versions of the game.
I suppose you could do the same thing with Iomedae. You could have worship among the nobles be a standard part of daily life; from her the firs noble inherited royal blood and thus all of his/her descendants can claim some aspect of rulership, even if it is merely over household servants. Among the common folk however there might be a helmeted, visored Judge aspect of Iomedae, like America's Lady Justice. She's blind (Lawful Neutral) and terrifyingly fair, constantly aware of your sins and sitting in judgment of them. You might also have some saints and martyrs in the faith that represent the Sun or Glory aspect. Worship in these sects is permitted by the passage of trials, specific vocations or some other requirement. They have their place within the hierarchy of the church but are more like knightly orders. Therefore they may modify or ignore certain aspects of the cannon in order to more closely pursue their specific charge. Examples might be the Order of the Nimbus Blade: a group of knights who require a vigil in a mausoleum until sunrise where they must thwart temptations of ease offered by servants of the order. If they prevail the worship is an abbreviated one - they say their prayers to the dawn and the dying, returning but once/year to take communion at the crypt and renew their oath by placing their sword upon the altar.
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Be a Bard of Asmodeus, wear leather pants and shred out sweet solos.
Arshea, Spirit of Abandon, is my favorite good god.
Really, don't you wish religion was like this?
Really BBT? Only once daily? Yawn...
Seriously though, this "deity" (term used loosely) illustrates a good point about picking a religion for a PC. If you're an optimizer there's no real question; pick the deity that gives you the access to the powers/domains you want and call it a day. If you want fluff though, you need to create some in order to push you over the edge. Start with how your religion prays.
Saranrae: I have a monk/bard NPC in my current campaign. She always excuses herself at dawn and moves a respectable distance from camp so as not to wake any of the others. Then she dons ceremonial garb, loos and flowing, with a number of jangling bits. When so attired, she dances, with her scimitar and without, while singing joyfully to the sun. She exalts in these prayers; even though they bring her no spells (not a cleric) she still finds the ritual comforting.
Iomedae: I would imagine a priest would find a place of meditation, then draw their sword. At this point the blade would be held aloft where light could reflect on it. At that point they might begin the Recitations of the Dictums; a canting of the commandments of the faithful, such as "Thou shalt extend mercy to the Fallen" or "Defend first; attack second." Upon completing the dictums, perhaps there might be some kind of ritualized sword kata or dance, practicing the movements of combat as dictated by their order/region/experience.
So to the OP: maybe start there. Read over the fluff of each deity you are considering and try to imagine how these different clerics might pray for their spells. Whatever seems to jump out at you; Pharasmin dirges under heavy cowls; Nethite arcane recitations; the snarling roll of the Punishments of the Weak issued by Zon-Kuthon. Whatever you find your imagination gravitating towards, go there.
Why not turn the question around: which Deity would pick your Character as a priest? What God(dess) recognizes themselves in your PC, or considers your character's behaviour an apt representation of their core tenets?
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Thanks everyone, these ideas have really got me thinking. I am building the character for Society play (but would also use a very similar one for other campaigns).
Thanks mechaPoet, I am glad to know that regional considerations perhaps aren't as serious a part of the lore as I had imagined.
Mark, thank you for your detailed responses. Your example of how prayer might work is just the kind of thing I was looking for. I realize that Paizo leaves these things open for interpretation to allow the players and GM's flexibility, and your ideas got my mind turning in the right direction.
VRMH, yours also is a good suggestion. As I start to think about my character's background this is a big help. I just wanted to make sure I had a clear understanding of what the core tenets were, so I could frame my decision apprpriately.