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The Treesinger (Druid) Archetype allows the player to choose from some plant companions.
Plant Bond (Ex): At 1st level, a treesinger forms a mystic bond with plant life. This bond can take one of two forms. [...]
The second option is to form a close bond with a plant companion. A treesinger may begin play with any of the plants listed in Plant Companions. This plant is a loyal companion that accompanies the treesinger on her adventures. Except for the companion being a creature of the plant type, drawn from the list of plant companions, this ability otherwise works like the standard druid's animal companion ability.
(Emphasis mine)
The plant types provides some benefits, one of which I have emphasized here:A plant creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
Low-light vision.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
[...]
This is all fine and dandy but the Carnivorous Flower Companion has the rage ability:
Special Attacks rage (1/day, as the barbarian class feature for 6 rounds).
Which provides a morale bonus to Strength and Constitution. So am I right in reading that RAW, when the Carnivorous Flower rages, it only gets the -2 penalty to AC? Should this receive errata?
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Except if the morale bonus is not a morale effect ;-)
For example, both Inspire Courage and Bless are mind-affecting abilities (and would not work on a plant). But Rage is not.
Thus I would say that Rage is not a morale effect (since it is not mind-affecting) and neither are the bonuses it provides, even if some are of the morale type (and thus do not stack with other morale bonuses).
Except if the morale bonus is not a morale effect ;-)
For example, both Inspire Courage and Bless are mind-affecting abilities (and would not work on a plant). But Rage is not.
Thus I would say that Rage is not a morale effect (since it is not mind-affecting) and neither are the bonuses it provides, even if some are of the morale type (and thus do not stack with other morale bonuses).
Huh, they claimed it to be in this thread, now I have to find the source.
By RAW I believe Undead (which has similar wording as the Plant type, i.e. immune morale effects) are not affected by morale effects such a Rage.
I would think that since the Carnivorous Plant is specifically supposed to have this and that Rage was an untyped bonus in 3.5 (which I'm going to guess this monsters is taken from) that it should probably just work for it and be immune to other morale effects. Consult your DM for their answer. By RAW they wouldn't get the benefits of Rage.
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While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
Since the statement from the plant subtype says:
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
It is clear that morale effects are included under mind-affecting. Now, if you're argument is that a morale effect isn't the same thing as a morale bonus, well then I just don't know what to say to that, because it's silly.
The argument that Rage is itself not a morale effect or bonus is "correct". It's a extraordinary ability. Which has the effect of adding a morale bonus to your strength, constitution, and will save as well as imposing an untyped -2 to your AC. So the only benefits you receive from Rage are morale bonuses.
Now are morale bonuses the same as morale effects?
I think all morale bonuses are morale effects, but not all morale effects are bonuses, because they could also be penalties.
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A morale bonus represents the effects of greater hope, courage, and determination (or hopelessness, cowardice, and despair in the case of a morale penalty). Multiple morale bonuses on the same character do not stack. Only the highest morale bonus applies. Non-intelligent creatures (creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from morale bonuses.
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A morale bonus represents the effects of greater hope, courage, and determination (or hopelessness, cowardice, and despair in the case of a morale penalty). Multiple morale bonuses on the same character do not stack. Only the highest morale bonus applies. Non-intelligent creatures (creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from morale bonuses.
Actually, RAW, if a creature with an intelligence of 0 or no intelligence at all is not noted as immune to mind-affecting effects, it can benefit from morale effects (including those that grant morale bonuses such as Bless).
And what about intelligent creatures that are immune to mind-affecting effects. Can they not benefit or suffer from these same emotions you described ?
Of the different creature subtypes only Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and Vermin are listed as being either mindless or possibly mindless. Of these creature types Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and Vermin have immunity to mind effecting (including morale effects) listed under their traits. That's all of them. RAW may not explicitly state that being mindless automatically makes you immune to mind affecting, but their is apparently a 100% correlation.
A creature with an intelligence of 0 is not mindless, they are comatose. Mindless creatures do not have a intelligence score. Look at the entry for a zombie, under ability scores it says Int -. As for whether a comatose creature can be affected by a morale effect, that I am not actually sure of.
Intelligent creatures listed as immune to mind affecting (which always seems to includes morale effects) would mean yes, the intelligent creature does not benefit or suffer from these morale effects. That is exactly what happens with Vampires. They are intelligent undead, but do not get morale bonuses or penalties.
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A morale bonus represents the effects of greater hope, courage, and determination (or hopelessness, cowardice, and despair in the case of a morale penalty). Multiple morale bonuses on the same character do not stack. Only the highest morale bonus applies. Non-intelligent creatures (creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from morale bonuses.Actually, RAW, if a creature with an intelligence of 0 or no intelligence at all is not noted as immune to mind-affecting effects, it can benefit from morale effects (including those that grant morale bonuses such as Bless).
And what about intelligent creatures that are immune to mind-affecting effects. Can they not benefit or suffer from these same emotions you described ?
thats a direct quote from raw.
so RAW called out no-go
(creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from morale bonuses.
According to this, it's the Mindless status (resulting from having an Intelligence score of "--") that makes Plants, Vermin, etc. immune to Mind-affecting effects. Undead are immune by nature of being undead so even undead with an Int score cannot benefit from mind-affecting effects, but it's only the Mindless status of vermin, constructs, plants, and other creatures with no Int score that makes them immune. Give them an Int score (as a carnivorous flower companion has) and they lose the Mindless status; hence they can be affected by mind-affecting effects.
I'm not sure that this is entirely true, but there is somewhat of a precedent for it.
Under the section entitlled Vermin it says:
Mindless: Vermin companions have no Intelligence score and possess the mindless trait. In spite of this, vermin companions may learn one trick, plus additional bonus tricks as noted on Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics. If a vermin animal companion gains an ability score increase (at 4 Hit Dice, 8 Hit Dice, and so on), the druid can apply this increase to the companion's Intelligence, changing it from — to 1, at which point the companion loses the mindless quality and is able to know up to 3 tricks per point of Intelligence, plus the additional bonus tricks, as per Handle Animal. Vermin companions have no skill points or feats as long as they have the mindless quality.
I think this could be applied to Plants and make sense. However, I think Undead and Constructs ought to maintain immunity to mind affecting whether they are mindless or not. Does anyone have any further precedents?
Wonderful, so precedent established.
Undead and Contructs are inherently immune to mind affecting regardless of intelligence scores.
Plants, Vermin, and Oozes are mindless as a result of having a int of --. If their int increase to 1 or above then the they loose the mindless quality. The mindless quality imparts the immunity to mind affecting.
And now I am thinking that Intimidate should be described as a Morale effect.
Now this I am in complete agreement with.
Without looking it up though, I think most of those things that are generally mindless are also immune to fear effects (which I think Intimidate fall under).