If a GM decides to use more than 15 point-buy for his campaign, or races built on more than 11 RP, how do you adjust CR to take that into account?
At what point would you say a character is stronger than normal for his or her level (enough to make equal-CR creatures less challenging)?
Among my gaming group, some of the players accept point-buy (even if they don't like it very much), and some are very vocal about their dislike of it. While it can be fun and exciting to get great stats for your character, it can also be disheartening to roll badly. Worse is trying to adjust your game when one character is simply outperforming another.
Despite this, rolling remains popular. I'm thinking to start my own Pathfinder game soon, but I'm unsure of how to balance characters built on higher point-buy values or using uncommon races.
Or, if I decide to allow die rolling, how to balance the game for a party who, if they were forced to use point-buy to create their characters, would weigh in at 50 points and up (in a friend's Pathfinder game, I calculated my Sorcerer is worth 55 points, and I don't even have the highest stats in the party- this has had the result of the GM using some crazy encounters to field what he feels is an appropriate "challenge").
I think PB 20 probably wouldn't change too much, though 25 will be a marked boost on low levels. For 20, I'd just give NPCs (well, the important ones, at least) +2 to their primary ability score and +1 HP/level. For 25 I'd probably add +1 to one other stat and +1 to saves.
I'd not advise rolling without at least a 25 point-buy backup, let them roll and afterwards they can pick point-buy instead if the rolling doesn't give them what they want.
I have done this in the last campaign played, though racially adjusted scores over 18 were not allowed to start with, slightly reducing the potential gain of rolling exceptionally high scores down by a few points (2PB for an 18 and 1PB for a 17) and tending to make characters a bit more diverse rather than specialized, additionally rolled scores will be usually less 'efficient' with less ideal stat dumping or having scores not quite at the sweet spot so characters with much higher potential will be quite a bit more rare though there is still considerable diversity.
This in itself will not (usually) raise the CR of the party much really and usually you can toughen the encounters up a bit by adding an extra mook or two, a small bonus due to environment or wicked tactics or giving the enemies a little extra treasure value, like a potion, masterwork gear or possibly a spell effect coupled with permanency or some such to not quite lift encounters to the next higher CR.
I agree with The Shaman that 20 point buy doesn't change game balance enough to worry about. A number of factors contribute to overall party power. Looking at all of those factors, you can determine if you'll need to increase the difficulty of encounters, and by how much.
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- Player Skill - How much gaming experience do the players have? Do they study rule books and understand how monsters work? Are they, in general, rules people?
- Ability Scores - 15pt, 20pt, 25pt, roll 3d6, roll 4d6, higher?
- Character Optimization - Do your players build strong characters? Do they read forums and optimization guides? Do they coordinate characters for synergistic power?
- Party Size - 3, 4, 5, 6, more?
- GM Rulings - Does the GM give more or less treasure than usual? Allow customized magic items? Give frequent rest breaks, or force 4 encounters per day? Fudge die rolls to save the characters?
I've actually given up rolling attributes and point buy in favor of an array. But, sometimes I GM for groups the love rolling, and I know it would ruin part of their enjoyment to give it up. For those groups, I've come up with a system that might work well for your bunch. I call it "Party Rolls".
- I give everyone a note card or a scrap of paper.
- Everyone rolls 4d6, drop the lowest, six times, writing the results on a note card. (Sometimes I generate a set too.)
- Everyone gives me the note cards and, should I feel that everyone rolled total crap, I make them roll again. (I've only had to do this once.)
- I record all of the arrays generated by the players into a master list. This becomes a permanent record for the campaign.
- All characters made for the campaign can use any set of ability scores from the master list.
This way, players get to have fun rolling dice, but nobody gets screwed by having lower attributes than their friends. Also, any new characters that join (new player, or just new PC) still get the same abilities, so things remain balanced.
I've actually given up rolling attributes and point buy in favor of an array. But, sometimes I GM for groups the love rolling, and I know it would ruin part of their enjoyment to give it up. For those groups, I've come up with a system that might work well for your bunch. I call it "Party Rolls".
- I give everyone a note card or a scrap of paper.
- Everyone rolls 4d6, drop the lowest, six times, writing the results on a note card. (Sometimes I generate a set too.)
- Everyone gives me the note cards and, should I feel that everyone rolled total crap, I make them roll again. (I've only had to do this once.)
- I record all of the arrays generated by the players into a master list. This becomes a permanent record for the campaign.
- All characters made for the campaign can use any set of ability scores from the master list.
This way, players get to have fun rolling dice, but nobody gets screwed by having lower attributes than their friends. Also, any new characters that join (new player, or just new PC) still get the same abilities, so things remain balanced.
On the downside you likely increased the relative power of the party immensely by allowing them to roll as many times as there are players (effectively).
On the downside you likely increased the relative power of the party immensely by allowing them to roll as many times as there are players (effectively).I've actually given up rolling attributes and point buy in favor of an array. But, sometimes I GM for groups the love rolling, and I know it would ruin part of their enjoyment to give it up. For those groups, I've come up with a system that might work well for your bunch. I call it "Party Rolls".
- I give everyone a note card or a scrap of paper.
- Everyone rolls 4d6, drop the lowest, six times, writing the results on a note card. (Sometimes I generate a set too.)
- Everyone gives me the note cards and, should I feel that everyone rolled total crap, I make them roll again. (I've only had to do this once.)
- I record all of the arrays generated by the players into a master list. This becomes a permanent record for the campaign.
- All characters made for the campaign can use any set of ability scores from the master list.
This way, players get to have fun rolling dice, but nobody gets screwed by having lower attributes than their friends. Also, any new characters that join (new player, or just new PC) still get the same abilities, so things remain balanced.
I don't particularly mind the characters having above-average scores, so long as they're balanced among the party. Also, I find that the customizability of point-buy vs. the randomness of rolled ability scores keeps a bit of balance between the two, even when the rolled scores are numerically higher.
Just raise the stats of the significant opponents so they are comparable or a bit better than the characters. So, for example, if the highest PC stat is 20, make sure the Boss Monster has at least a 22 in their primary stat (the Boss should be better than any individual PC).