I want to create an Amulet of Natural Armor +2 with my 3 Level Wizard.
His Spellcraft skill is +12. I only want to Take 10 on my Skill Check and my Spellbook contains barskin.
My Question is: What is the minimum and the maximum casterlevel I could choose for the item?
The Caster Level for the Amulet of Natural Armor is 5th level regardless of the bonus (+1 to +5).
If your 3rd level wizard has Craft Wondrous Items and he has a druid or ranger friend cast Barkskin (it cannot normally be in your spellbook as it is not a wizard spell), then he can craft a +1 amulet with a DC 10 Spellcraft check or a +2 to +5 amulet with a DC 15 Spellcraft check.
If you did not have a druid or ranger to cast Barkskin then the Spellcraft DC goes to 15 or 20 respectively. So you could craft a +5 Amulet of Natural Armor by just taking 10 at 3rd level.
The breakdown for the Spellcraft checks are as follows:
+1 Amulet (Base 5 + Caster Level 5 = DC 10)
+2 to +5 Amulet (Base 5 + Caster Level 5 + Caster Level Requirement not met 5 = DC 15)
+1 Amulet (Base 5 + Caster Level 5 + Spell Requirement not met 5 = DC 15)
+2 to +5 Amulet (Base 5 + Caster Level 5 + Caster Level Requirement not met 5 + Spell Requirement not met 5 = DC 20)
Well, there's 3 requirements for the AoNA: Feat (check), Spell (Check), sufficiently high CL (Nope).
It counts as CL 5. That's DC 5 (CL) +5 (crafting rules) +5 (missing requirement), or DC 15 to craft an amulet with any bonus you want.
As for crafting with a higher CL...I don't know if you're allowed to craft at a higher level than both the base item and your own CL, but if you are, you could hit CL 12 (DC 22) by taking 10. Won't affect the item's bonus.
I thought the Caster Level would be 6 for the OP's amulet, per the item's description:
"creator’s caster level must be at least three times the amulet’s bonus"
Since this actually is a requirement, not just a guideline, and a level 3 wizard does not meet the requirement, the DC is +5. Furthermore, I think he can create a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor at CL 3, so the DC would only be 8.
I am also not sure how you got Barkskin on a wizard since wizards can't cast that spell. Maybe a genie gave it to you (though maybe I could think of a better use for a wish, but each to their own). The DCs I will list below assume you can cast it or get a druid friend to cast it each day for you, but I'll also indicate the DCs if you truly don't have access to Barkskin while you create the item.
So:
+1 = CL 3, DC 8 (or 13 if you don't have access to Barkskin)
+2 = CL 6, DC 16 (or 21)
+3 = CL 9, DC 19 (or 24)
etc.
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The amulet's caster level will always be 5 (regardless of bonus), but the creator's caster level must be 3 times the bonus.
Or, in other words, the caster level of an item doesn't always have much, if anything, to do with which caster level must be used to make it.
Lets say it is not a Witzard it is a Druid to simlyfiy this.
Agreed with Are.
The DC is:
5 (base) + 5 (caster level) + 5 (missing requirement of level 6) = 15.
I am unsure if caster level is treated as a requirement at all - if it is, then it should be an additional +5 for not having CL5, which means it ends up at DC20.
Regardless, with a +12 bonus you can craft it by taking 10.
Agreed with Are.
The DC is:
5 (base) + 5 (caster level) + 5 (missing requirement of level 6) = 15.I am unsure if caster level is treated as a requirement at all - if it is, then it should be an additional +5 for not having CL5, which means it ends up at DC20.
Regardless, with a +12 bonus you can craft it by taking 10.
Only the items listed under requirements are considered requirements. In this case three requirements are Craft Wondrous Items, Barkskin, and caster level must be 3x amulet's bonus.
So like everyone has mentioned for a +2 amulet it is a DC 15 which is easily accomplished by taking 10 on the check.
OK then the answer is?:
Druid LVL 3 Spellcraft +12
Creation : Amulet of Natural Armor +1 to +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +1, min Item CL 5, DC 10, max Item CL 17, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +2, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +3, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +4, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Very interesting :
paizo.com/threads/rzs2k74y?Magic-Item-Creation-and-Caster-Level
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I want to create an Amulet of Natural Armor +2 with my 3 Level Wizard.
His Spellcraft skill is +12. I only want to Take 10 on my Skill Check and my Spellbook contains barskin.
My Question is: What is the minimum and the maximum casterlevel I could choose for the item?
According to the Magic Item section of the CRB,
Caster Level (CL): The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item's saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself.
Emphasis mine. So, per the Wondorous Item, the Amulet of Natural Armor, the Caster Level is 5th level. This never changes. You cannot decide to change it as the craftsperson. It is set in stone. Or, in this case, in bark.
Per the Magic Item Creation rules, the Spellcraft DC would be "5 + the caster level for the item", then any additional penalties, such as missing requirements (just one for a +5 in this case), and whether you're hurrying (an additional +5). The craftsperson can work up to 8 hours per day, for 1,000gp worth of the item's base price. As the base price for a +2 AoNA is 8,000gp, it would take 8 days to craft the item. If you rush, you can do 1,000gp work in 4 hours. If we assume the same 8 hours are available, then you could get it done in 4 days. The DC without the rush is 5 (base DC) + 5 (item's caster level) + 5 (requirement not met) = DC 15. With the rush, it would be a further + 5, i.e. DC 20. Based on your skill, these can be accomplished with taking 10.
A quick note, this is all subject to GM approval. There is never a time where magic item creation stops requiring GM approval. Please make sure you check in with whoever your GM is before you start crafting your magic items.
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OK then the answer is?:
Druid LVL 3 Spellcraft +12
Creation : Amulet of Natural Armor +1 to +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +1, min Item CL 5, DC 10, max Item CL 17, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +2, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +3, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +4, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Druid : Level 3. Spellcraft : Any.
Creation : Amulet of Natural Armor +1 to +5.
Amulet of Natural Armor +1, min Item CL 5, DC 10, max Item CL 5, DC 10
Amulet of Natural Armor +2, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 5, DC 15
Amulet of Natural Armor +3, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 5, DC 15
Amulet of Natural Armor +4, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 5, DC 15
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 5, DC 15
The increase of 5 in the DC is due to not meeting the requirement "creator's caster level must be at least three times the amulet's bonus". A further +5 could be added to the DC to hurry crafting. That is all.
Edit : Sean K Reynold's post here and, more to the point, this FAQ, make me doubt my original analysis. It seems possible to set the CL of a crafted magic item to any level you want, as long as the minimum caster level, being that set by the item or the minimum caster level to cast the spell, is met. Changing the caster level does not affect the abilities or strength of the item. In which case, the base crafting DC is still 5 + the item's caster level, which means the DC would increase. In which case, your analysis is the correct one.
OK then the answer is?:
Druid LVL 3 Spellcraft +12
Creation : Amulet of Natural Armor +1 to +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +1, min Item CL 5, DC 10, max Item CL 17, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +2, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +3, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +4, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, min Item CL 5, DC 15, max Item CL 12, DC 22Very interesting :
paizo.com/threads/rzs2k74y?Magic-Item-Creation-and-Caster-Level
These are not correct. Even in the Sean Reynold's post that is cited above he says "none of these choices affect the price, cost, time, or craft DC in any way" in regards to setting a higher caster level for an item. So your DC are either 10 or 15 depending on the bonus of the amulet.
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These are not correct. Even in the Sean Reynold's post that is cited above he says "none of these choices affect the price, cost, time, or craft DC in any way" in regards to setting a higher caster level for an item. So your DC are either 10 or 15 depending on the bonus of the amulet.
I love reading SKR's posts, he has an excellent grasp of the system and usually knows what he's talking about. Usually. Like any human being, he is wrong on occasion, Designer or no. In this instance, I'd direct you to the FAQ also linked in my above post, namely ;
For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic).
Emphasis mine. Why enter this text in the FAQ if the CL did not increase the crafting DC? Also, given that a CL 20 item is better than a CL "anything less", in that the check for dispel magic is then harder, if it made no difference to anything, why is every item not CL 20 by default? Or, heck, CL 100. There's also no rule saying you can't make the CL over 20.
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These are not correct. Even in the Sean Reynold's post that is cited above he says "none of these choices affect the price, cost, time, or craft DC in any way" in regards to setting a higher caster level for an item. So your DC are either 10 or 15 depending on the bonus of the amulet.
You are taking that phrase out of context. it is not a general rule, it is a specific comment to the specific item (a bag of holding) whose abilities don't vary with the caster level of the item.
A few paragraphs after that he say
Asking the same question about something where the CL *does* matter (like a wand of fireball), I would make the crafting check higher, because that CL actually reflects a significant change in the item's power. A wiz5 trying to make a CL 10th wand of fireball doesn't have the prerequisite to cast a 10d6 fireball, so him trying to make a wand of that should be harder than making a 5d6 wand... and this is reflected in the cost of the item (a 10d6 wand costs more than a 5d6 wand). It *should* be harder for that wizard to make the better wand because the wand really is better than the other wand.
As shown in the FAQ the "Default" Item CL can be "ignored" in some special situations like creating a perl of power.
In this case here the requirement is: the Casterlevel of the creator must be
three times the natural armor bonus. I think that in this special case it is also a requirement for the item CL. But I cant prove it.
So what about this table :
Druid LVL 3 Spellcraft +12
Creation by take 10 : Amulet of Natural Armor +1 to +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +1, min Item CL 3, DC 8, max Item CL 17, DC 22 (Min Caster level 3: ok) <-- createable by take 10
Amulet of Natural Armor +2, min Item CL 6, DC 16, max Item CL 12, DC 22 (Min Caster level 6: +5 DC) <-- createable by take 10
Amulet of Natural Armor +3, min Item CL 9, DC 19, max Item CL 12, DC 22 (Min Caster level 9: +5 DC) <-- createable by take 10
Amulet of Natural Armor +4, min Item CL 12, DC 22, max Item CL 12, DC 22 (Min Caster level 12: +5 DC) <-- createable by take 10
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, min Item CL 15, DC 25, max Item CL --, DC -- (Min Caster level 15: +5 DC) <--NOT createable by take 10
Out of curiosity, how does your spellbook contain barkskin, a druid or ranger spell?
There is a wizard academy in the Mwangi Expanse that allows an arcane caster to gain a druid spell in place of a known spell when he levels. A wizard of this school can indeed learn Barksin and have it in his spellbook, =)
The CL 5 of the listed amulet in the book is not a mandated CL. You can change that. The FAQ as well as the CRB itself makes that clear. So the item listed in the book is really just an example. A weird one, because the feat can be taken at level 3 and Barkskin can be cast at level 3 so it seems the item should default to CL3, not CL5, but it's what they wrote so there it is.
Since we know that crafting our own items lets us pick whatever CL we want, let's just assume that NPC crafters commonly like to pick CL5 for this item, but we know that we're not bound by that so we can pick whatever we want want, no lower than 3 (minimum level to cast Barkskin) and the CRB really makes it look like the person creating it cannot choose a CL higher than his own CL and I don't see a FAQ that clearly overrides this, but posts from the Devs seem to disagree - I don't know how seriously we take Dev posts compared to RAW + FAQ, but I suppose this one could go either way.
For me, I will go with RAW, then check FAQ, and then be done. If I have to search a forum and read a hundred threads to find some DEV post, that's too much effort to figure out a rule. Further, if devs post something contradictory to RAW, then they better dang well go make a FAQ out of it to make it official, otherwise maybe it's just a DEV being wrong. It happens.
So RAW + FAQ seems to say that max CL cannot be higher than the creator's CL but anyone who wants to run with SKR's posts can easily argue that he says otherwise.
In any case, to me, it's just plain silly that crafting a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor is exactly the same difficulty as a +5 amulet - it takes 50 days instead of 2, but it's the same difficulty. If nothing else, that rule needs to be fixed.
But for now, RAW says that is, so there you have it.
As someone pointed out, the requirement on CL has nothing to do with the item's CL, which is correct. I was wrong before. So even though you have to be a certain CL (3x the item's bonus) to create it, you can still set the CL to whatever you want.
Which boils down to:
Creation : Amulet of Natural Armor +1 to +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +1, min Item CL 3, DC 10, max Item CL whatever you want, DC 5+whatever
Amulet of Natural Armor +2, min Item CL 3, DC 15, max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10+whatever
Amulet of Natural Armor +3, min Item CL 3, DC 15, max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10+whatever
Amulet of Natural Armor +4, min Item CL 3, DC 15, max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10+whatever
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, min Item CL 3, DC 15, max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10+whatever
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... and the CRB really makes it look like the person creating it cannot choose a CL higher than his own CL and I don't see a FAQ that clearly overrides this...
So RAW + FAQ seems to say that max CL cannot be higher than the creator's CL...
In the Pearl of Power FAQ it is noted that a 1st level PoP can be crafted with a minimum caster level of 1, being the level at which a Wizard can cast 1st level spells. It states that the minimum caster level for a 2nd level PoP would be 3, as the Wizard can't cast 2nd level spells until level 3. It then goes on to say that a 3rd level Wizard can create a 3rd level PoP, even though the minimum caster level is 5. So the FAQ does state that a craftsperson can create an item at a CL higher than their own.
In any case, to me, it's just plain silly that crafting a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor is exactly the same difficulty as a +5 amulet - it takes 50 days instead of 2, but it's the same difficulty. If nothing else, that rule needs to be fixed.
I agree, it's very silly. However, it can be inferred from the PoP FAQ that, where the power level of an item scales, the caster level requirement scales. For example, for the 3rd level PoP, there is the requirement to be able to cast 3rd level spells. This sets the minimum caster level for the PoP at the lowest caster level required to cast 3rd level spells, namely 5th level. Ergo, for the Amulet of Natural Armour, it could be interpreted that the caster level requirement would increase for the bonus required from Barkskin to be the desired level. In this case, for a +2 bonus from Barkskin, you need a 3rd level caster. But for a +3 bonus, it'd set the minimum caster level to 6th, for a +4, 9th level, and for a +5, 12th level.
Alternatively, we could interpret the PoP note that the requirement to cast Xth level spells setting the minimum caster level of the item as being a trend. Hence the "creator's caster level must be at least three times the amulet's bonus" requirement of the AoNA could be interpreted as setting the minimum caster level for the various bonuses for the item, following said trend. This would, as noted, run contra to the currently understood crafting rules, but the currently understood crafting rules are often argued and very unclear, so maybe that understanding is incorrect.
Either of the above makes more sense than the current interpretation, as the higher bonuses become more difficult to craft. Not quite the scale one would expect/hope for, representing bigger bonuses being harder to craft, but it would be a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, it's a possible interpretation based off the FAQ, not something explicitly stated or made clear. I'd argue it's as valid an interpretation as that of the requirement having no effect on the caster level at all.
Craftsperson : 3rd level Wizard with Barkskin in spellbook.
Crafting DC : Base 5 + Caster Level of Item + 5 for each Crafting Requirement not met
Based off the bonus setting the DC ;
Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Min Item CL 3, DC 8, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 5 + whatever caster level was chosen
Amulet of Natural Armor +2, Min Item CL 3, DC 13, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10 + whatever caster level was chosen
Amulet of Natural Armor +3, Min Item CL 6, DC 16, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10 + whatever caster level was chosen
Amulet of Natural Armor +4, Min Item CL 9, DC 19, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10 + whatever caster level was chosen
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Min Item CL 12, DC 22, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10 + whatever caster level was chosen
Based off the requirement setting the minimum caster level ;
Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Min Item CL 3, DC 8, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 5 + whatever caster level was chosen
Amulet of Natural Armor +2, Min Item CL 6, DC 16, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10 + whatever caster level was chosen
Amulet of Natural Armor +3, Min Item CL 9, DC 19, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10 + whatever caster level was chosen
Amulet of Natural Armor +4, Min Item CL 12, DC 22, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10 + whatever caster level was chosen
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Min Item CL 15, DC 25, Max Item CL whatever you want, DC 10 + whatever caster level was chosen