Is there a PrC for rogue/ cleric that I am missing somewhere? I'd even settle for ranger/ rogue...
just be an inquisitor 1-20
horizon walker works for ranger/rogue i suppose
What do you want it to do? Sleepless detective is great for an urban ranger/rogue.
SA, I know it seems like a weak mechanic, but I am toying with reliable ways to pull it off. I need either channel energy from the cleric to keep him viable vs elementals and supper effective against undead and evil outsiders, or ranger to keep him viable against constructs, oozes, and plants.
Two different builds for different enemie focuses. Plus, ranger/ rogue = the Punisher. If there were an archetype that trades fav enemy for SA I would not only be in heaven, but disavow myself from all further rogue builds entirely.
Grey Warden looks to be as close as I can get for both options with sleepless detective being a close second for ranger/ rogue.
How narrow, the punisher is so obviously part rogue that it isn't even funny. SA at range and melee, free feats where rogue talents go, enough skills to pull of all sorts of anything, and evasion. If its gun prof you are looking for from gunslinger, there are feats, archetypes, and even rogue talents for that too. Ranger/ rogue is an obvious choice for obvious reasons, rogue hate aside.
Ranger archetype that subs favored enemy for (staggered) sneak attack would be awesome, true, and I'd check with your DM,maybe s/he can allow it. What part of the cleric are you looking for, mind you?
Hmm, I think rogue levels (as opposed to a full-rogue build) could work, but given how human-only most comics are FE makes up for that. Haven't read enough punisher comics to comment further.
@ Shaman: For cleric I am looking for channeling dice. Channel smite + SA to be exact. Two underdog class features that I want to pair together and make something out of. It's a concept build, not optimization build for sure.
@ BBT: yes, FE human from ranger, and SA + skills + traps + rogue talents (read feats) + evasion + UCD from rogue. Looking at a 6/4 ranger- rogue split with your last 10 lvls in Grey Warden for continued SA, bane, destruction judgement, and all the other flavorful Grey Warden class abilities.
@ Byrdology - ok, sadly I don't see any premade PrC that does that; I'd suggest working with your DM to trade another feature for it or update a 3.5 PrC for Pathfinder with the conversion rules .pdf.
Mind you, I noted the channeling scourge feat allows you to stack inquisitor levels to whatever gives you channel energy - but you need to get it somehow first.
Thanks, but sadly it is for PFS. I guess it's straight multiclass at 6/6 for my cleric/ rogue. I'll have to check out the channeling scourge feat.
No rogue for me? No soup for you!
Byrd, are there enough must-have talents that you need to make the sixth rogue level preferable to ranger 7? Woodland stride isn't much of a prize, but plenty of archetypes trade it off and 7th opens your second level spells (assuming you've got the 14+ Wisdom)
@ BiosTheo: it cool, he's only considered a troll if you bicker back and forth with him... Wait a tick... Crap! I guess I blew that one... Jk, sometimes though, if it weren't for his rhetoric then I would get no responses to some of my threads.
/em pets BBT. "Good troll, good troll"
@ ZanThrax: which build are you referring to? I actually counted my lvls wrong. The "Punisher" build should actually be ranger 7/ rogue 4/ gray warden 9. I need lvl 7 for 2nd lvl spells. I could cap rogue at 3, but I really want the extra feat and UCD from rogue 4.
And the cleric/ rogue (or ninja which would be slightly less mad, or at least maximize my cha potential) should be an odd number split like 5/7 or 7/5 to get that last d6 from channel or SA. That would net 3d6 channel (or SA), 4d6 of the other, and another 2d6 with a phylactery of channeling, probly negative in order to effect more targets. A neutral god so I can channel negative, and the feats: versatile channeler, channel smite, alignment and elemental channeling and I am good to go against most foes, and at least a few that are immune to SA. Is there a domain that lets you channel against constructs or plants?
@ Devo: the delver is certainly an interesting choice, but has 0 synergy with cleric. But I had overlooked that PrC and will have to give it a harder gander for a different build.
Byrdology, in the absence of a PrC that advances both sneak attack and channeling, I think any attempt to multiclass will just leave you with a character who is bad at both. A classic case of the old saying, "If you chase two rabbits, you will lose them both."
Also, sounded before like you think sneak attack won't work on constructs or plants; this isn't true anymore in Pathfinder. Sneak attack works on everything except elementals, oozes, and swarms (IIRC)
SA, I know it seems like a weak mechanic, but I am toying with reliable ways to pull it off. I need either channel energy from the cleric to keep him viable vs elementals and supper effective against undead and evil outsiders, or ranger to keep him viable against constructs, oozes, and plants.
Two different builds for different enemie focuses. Plus, ranger/ rogue = the Punisher. If there were an archetype that trades fav enemy for SA I would not only be in heaven, but disavow myself from all further rogue builds entirely.
Grey Warden looks to be as close as I can get for both options with sleepless detective being a close second for ranger/ rogue.
Only PrC that I am aware of that continues to gain Channel dice is Holy Vindicator. While that fits in with your desire to smash elementals (Elemental Channel as one of the possible requirements) it might not fit in with the rogue aspect of your character. It could be pulled off though.
True, good points both. But I disagree with adding SA and channel being a bad idea. Keep in mind that full casting is not the goal here, but rather a negative energy infused SA, or the ability to render some form of extra dmg to elementals. Cleric levels give the rogue a much needed fort/ will bump, medium armor (for this is a str/ cha build), and some heal/ buff/ utility options that the rogue lacks. While rogue gives the cleric a balanced skill selection, a few combat options, the much needed ref/ evasion defense, and tons of mechanical RP seasoning.
This guy is not a full caster, skill monkey, or dpr king; but he is a versatile skirmisher with enough skills to be a bit more viable than a healbot with little out of combat utility. I think it walks the line between balancing the two and sucking at both pretty well.
Sample build: Vashton Grey human cleric (crusader) 5/ Ninja 7
Str: 15
Dex: 14
Con: 11
Int: 7
Wis: 14
Cha: 16 (+2 from human)
+1 str @ lvl 4, +1 con @ lvl 8, +1 int at lvl 8. +2 belt of physical perfection, and phylactery of negative healing. Final stats @ lvl 12: 18, 16, 14, 8, 14, 16.
1) cleric- hvy armor prof*, versatile channeler, channel smite
2) cleric-
3) cleric- elemental channel
4) ninja-
5) ninja- power attack, vanish trick*
6) ninja-
7) cleric- alignment channel
8) cleric- weapon focus: katana*
9) Ninja- pressure points*, ?
10) ninja-
11) ninja- ?, ?*
12) Ninja-
Could use some fill in the blanks for feats, but he is doing 4d6 SA, he can channel 5d6 negative energy against living or chaotic evil undead, and 2d6 positive energy 6/day in a channel smite + weapon dmg which is minimum 1d8 + 12 criting on an 18+ (this without enchantments). And he has 59 skill points which lets him max almost 5 different skills.
Sample build 2: Casious Darkbane "the Arbiter" NG human ranger (urban) 7/ grey warden 5
20 pt buy
Str: 16
Dex: 16 (+2 from human)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 13 (+1 @ 4, 8, and 12)
Cha: 10
Looking to buy a +4 belt of phys perf, mithril full plate, comp longbow (+5 str), and a keen holy fauchard.
1) ranger- combat ref, exotic weap prof: fauchard*, FE: undead
2) ranger- power attack
3) ranger-
4) ranger-
5) ranger- FE: evil outsider
6) ranger- Vital Strike
7) ranger-
8) GW-
9) GW-
10) GW-
11) GW-
12) GW-
Need to add alot of feats, but he ends up with +4 to hit/ dmg (instant enemy wand), 2d6 SA, 3d6 bane, 2d6 holy, the destruction judgement, and 4d8 weapon dmg (lead blades + vital strike. 80 skills, plenty of in and out of combat utility, and tons of flavor. Much more optimal than the cleric/ ninja, but less casting versatility, and no channeling.
The first build has better face skills, some better stealth options via vanish trick, better heal/ buffs, 0 lvl utility spells, versatile channeling (effective against more enemy types earlier on), and RPs better as a team player.
The secon build has unquestionable combat survivability out the gate and better and more consistent dmg later on, trapfinding, tracking, great utility spells (even if they are few and late blooming) but not better casting versatility, more skills, and RPs as a secluded brooding combat leader.
You decide which is the better of the two overall.
Any takers, tweaks, or trashes?
No?
Yes, I can easily afford furious focus, iron will imp crit and maybe even skill focus: sense motive on that build.
Or I could take those feats down a TWF or archery path.
Urban Ranger / Paladin multiclass? Paladins get Channeling as a Cleric, and it isn't hard to generate enough LoH charges per day to make it work. Adding in Oath of Vengeance is probably a good idea. You may need to be human to have enough feats.
Alternatively, there is the Champion or Irori (monk/paladin) prestige class, which can spend ki points on laying on hands and thus channeling. It'll be very, very MAD though, since you need both Wis and Cha to do anything at all, aside from your physical attributes. I don't see that work under a 25-point build.
Urban Ranger / Paladin multiclass? Paladins get Channeling as a Cleric, and it isn't hard to generate enough LoH charges per day to make it work. Adding in Oath of Vengeance is probably a good idea. You may need to be human to have enough feats.
Alternatively, there is the Champion or Irori (monk/paladin) prestige class, which can spend ki points on laying on hands and thus channeling. It'll be very, very MAD though, since you need both Wis and Cha to do anything at all, aside from your physical attributes. I don't see that work under a 25-point build.
Interesting, may have to add these to my Holy Terrors thread.
I know, right? I'm glad there is an inquisitor, but I want something a bit more focused.
3.5 had several sneak attacking divine casting prestige classes to pick from. It's a shame that Pathfinder can't have at least one.
I miss the Blackguard.
I just miss telling people they're pronouncing it wrong.
Probably "black-guard" (distinguishing both syllables) instead of "blaggard" (running both syllables together), which is really just a pronunciation shift.
What? How?I miss the Blackguard.I just miss telling people they're pronouncing it wrong.
It's a very British word. Most of it is silent. "Blaggard" is how it's normally spoken.
Byrd, if you're still interested in a cleric / rogue PRC, I recently realised that arcane trickster will work just fine with the new SLA to meet prerequisite rules. Two-World Magic can give a cleric mage hand and the trickery domain takes care of the level 2 arcane casting. The 2d6 SA can be accomplished with either three rogue/ninja levels or with a level dip into any of the various SA granting PRCs if you're willing to take longer to get started on the AT. (Have to decide between starting AT at fifth or losing only two cleric caster levels).
I'm currently thinking about a Vanara cleric of Sun Wukong who will travel around emulating his deity.
Not sure, but low Templar might sorta count(?)