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Take for example the Law domain power:
Touch of Law (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a standard action, infusing it with the power of divine order and allowing it to treat all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 round as if the natural d20 roll resulted in an 11. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
How useable is a power like this if the cleric were to target himself? When does the 1 round end?
More specifically... if the cleric ends his current round with this action, will he have the ability available on his next turn, or has it already ended by then?
Was thinking of using this Domain with my Gunslinger (who is picking up a level or two of Inquisitor)... as it would be kind of nice to be able to fire without risk of misfires (at the cost of not firing in the previous round).
This question would equally apply to Touch of Good, Bit of Luck, Strength Surge, etc.
Thanks!
It ends just before the start of your next turn, so it is usually not beneficial to use it on yourself but on others it can be an impressive boost without using any spells.
You should in theory be able to take the quicken spell-like ability feat to use it as a swift action 3/day but that depends on what level the SLA counts as (personally I think they should not be SLA at all).
In general when a spell or ability calls for touching a creature, the ability user can touch and use it on oneself unless the ability specifically calls for "another creature" as the viable target. I am not sure about official ruling on the timing. Personally I'd allow using it on oneself and gaining it benefits until the end of the target's following turn but I suspect that some GM wouldn't agree with that interpretation.
I think it was on these very forums where I found the idea that using these powers on oneself should be treated as a swift action, akin to the Paladin's Lay on Hands
In this case, the duration wouldn't have to be revised at all.
Yeah, I've never seen the value of most of these abilities - changing them to a swift action does make them much more useful.
Yeah, I've never seen the value of most of these abilities - changing them to a swift action does make them much more useful.
I'd say too useful, if I am going to houserule them I would just change them to be more in line with the abilities that do not require a standard action to activate.
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Yeah, I've never seen the value of most of these abilities - changing them to a swift action does make them much more useful.
They're awesome for buffing other people just the way they are. Clerics are best as a support class, and these domain powers do a great job of supporting that. Clerics can do combat, but their powers aren't always geared towards going that route themselves.
This question came up at the PaizoCon rules seminar last year (podcast of seminar available from Know Direction). Answer was generally prior to the next turn, unless the ability is not useable in that case, and would then last until the end of the turn. Essentially, whatever makes sense and fun.
I think the key is that whoever the target is, they don't get to use it on two of the caster's turns.
Yeah, I've never seen the value of most of these abilities - changing them to a swift action does make them much more useful.They're awesome for buffing other people just the way they are. Clerics are best as a support class, and these domain powers do a great job of supporting that. Clerics can do combat, but their powers aren't always geared towards going that route themselves.
The trouble is that they're almost never worth taking the action to do it. I realize this may be related to my tendency to play and run games with relatively few encounters in a day (don't like dungeon crawls) but it's almost always more effective to be doing something else, even if your goal is to buff an ally.
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This question came up at the PaizoCon rules seminar last year (podcast of seminar available from Know Direction). Answer was generally prior to the next turn, unless the ability is not useable in that case, and would then last until the end of the turn. Essentially, whatever makes sense and fun.
I think the key is that whoever the target is, they don't get to use it on two of the caster's turns.
That may be, but given that this is a Society character I would be using it on, we have to go with RAW. Unless there was a specific ruling on these sorts of abilities, I'd have to agree with Jiggy that they are not effective for the caster.
I think that house ruling them more like Truestrike would be a better balance, than having them a swift action (like Lay On Hands would be), as it does give a definite cost to using them (and an advantage to using them on someone else... they get the benefit immediately).
In this case, I can live with the ruling, and will be taking Travel domain instead (which has an AWESOME set of domain powers).
I have used the vision of madness ability on myself (similar kind of ability). But because of the it won't work to improve my to hit or my skill checks.
However, it works very nicely to buff up my saves when I am expecting to be the target of the BBEG's spells.
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There's also somebody who wrote a guide to optimizing a reach weapon cleric. His whole idea revolved around action economy. Buff yourself on your turn, then use the reach weapon to get attacks of opportunity, rather than attacking on your turn. It's an interesting idea, but against smart enemies who can see you have the reach weapon, I don't know how effective it will be.
That may be, but given that this is a Society character I would be using it on, we have to go with RAW. Unless there was a specific ruling on these sorts of abilities, I'd have to agree with Jiggy that they are not effective for the caster.This question came up at the PaizoCon rules seminar last year (podcast of seminar available from Know Direction). Answer was generally prior to the next turn, unless the ability is not useable in that case, and would then last until the end of the turn. Essentially, whatever makes sense and fun.
I think the key is that whoever the target is, they don't get to use it on two of the caster's turns.
In my opinion, and Developer opinions, the text Jiggy quoted does not apply. These abilities do not last "a certain number of rounds", they last just 1 round, and that requires special interpretation.
Here is something interesting. Some of the abilities have this language:
Touch of Chaos (Sp): You can imbue a target with chaos as a melee touch attack. For the next round, anytime the target rolls a d20, he must roll twice and take the less favorable result. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
This one states explicitly, "for the next round". From the combat section:
1. When combat begins, all combatants roll initiative.
2. Determine which characters are aware of their opponents. These characters can act during a surprise round. If all the characters are aware of their opponents, proceed with normal rounds. See the surprise section for more information.
3. After the surprise round (if any), all combatants are ready to being the first normal round of combat.
4. Combatants act in initiative order (highest to lowest).
5. When everyone has had a turn, the next round begins with the combatant with the highest initiative, and steps 3 and 4 repeat until combat ends.
This ability would seem to work for the cleric using it on himself, as in say Round 2 the cleric uses the ability, which functions during Round 3. In Round 3, the cleric does something requiring a d20 check, and utilize the power ability.
Other abilities, like touch of law:
Touch of Law (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a standard action, infusing it with the power of divine order and allowing it to treat all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 round as if the natural d20 roll resulted in an 11. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
This one states for 1 round, which as we saw earlier, is defined to immediately prior to the initiative that started it. In this case running out immediately prior to the Law domain clerics next turn.
I don't think "something I heard on a podcast once" trumps explicit rules text.
I'm shocked you haven't listened to it yourself - very informative, and easily as relevant as a FAQ post, with all three developers concurring.
And there is no explicit rules text for 1 round abilities - that's a difficulty but not a problem. Some (not most of the domain ones) must be read as through the end of next round, or would have absolutely no effect. Others would be wildly overpowered if read that way. It's usually quite clear which it should be.