Assuming you qualify for the feat, yes, you can take it.
Note: Some GMs think (erroneously) that because the feats are located in the Bestiary that means they are off-limits to players. This is not the case (except in PFS which has many restrictions).
- Gauss
Caderyn, what is the difference between Bestiary feats and feats placed in any of the other core rulebooks? It isnt like we are talking splatbook here. Do you vet EVERY feat from the core rulebooks?
Some of those feats are INTENDED for player use. But since monsters were the first to use it they are banned from players?
- Gauss
The issue is mainly those feats were designed with monsters in mind and are more likely to have unexpected 'side-effects' in the hands of players, but basically they are no different than any feat in the game, but common courtesy to ask your GM, most GMs I play with indicate the books which you can use to create your character (bestiary not usually included).
AnnoyingOrange, do you have a Dev statement anywhere that says feats in the bestiary are not intended for player use due to being 'Monster only'? If so I'd love to see it.
In fact, the Bestiary states that the feats are available for players if they qualify for them. Anything else is a houserule and as such does not belong in the Rules forum.
- Gauss
No, this feat does not say it's only for monsters. Yes, that means PCs could use this feat. But the question is, where?
I don't think it's allowed in PFS. Anywhere else, it's up to the DM, not the player, whether it's allowed or not.
Quicken Spell is a fun idea but it bumps the spell up 4 levels, so a Quickened Darkness (for example) would have to be placed in a 5th level slot and could only be used one time for each time you do that - if you want it 3 times/day you have to use three 5th level spell slots. This means losing other abilities so what you're paying is a feat for the opportunity to trade one or more high-level spells for quickened low-level spells.
Quicken Spell-Like Ability would allow a creature that can cast Darkness as a SLA to use this up to three times with no penalty. No trades, no loss of other ability. Just pay for the feat and Boom! Quickened ability 3/day.
That's pretty powerful. I don't blame any DM for disallowing that on PC abilities.
Wizard: Hey, check this out. I took one feat and now I can replace a 5th level spell with Quickened Darkness. What should I give up, Cone of Cold, Teleport, or my Empowered Fireball?
Drow: Give up, are you kidding me? I took one feat and now I can cast Quickened darkness and I don't give anything up at all. I guess it sucks to be a wizard...
Given the nature of this feat, I'd suggest to anyone to clear it with the DM before you show up one day with it on your character sheet.
AnnoyingOrange, do you have a Dev statement anywhere that says feats in the bestiary are not intended for player use due to being 'Monster only'? If so I'd love to see it.
In fact, the Bestiary states that the feats are available for players if they qualify for them. Anything else is a houserule and as such does not belong in the Rules forum.
- Gauss
I don't and it is not what I said, basically I said 'if your GM says so' which is as much a rule as any other.
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More accurately some players and GM's think (correctly) that anything outside the core rule book should be run past the GM before you take it, personally I dont allow the free picking of bestiary feats and I know many other GM's who are the same as certain PC abilities become very strong with the application of bestiary feats.
Actually, Gauss is right. Some GMs believe that Bestiary feats are automatically Monsters-only, just because these feats are in the Bestiary. And this belief is incorrect, as there is nothing in the RAW to substantiate it.
Now, if the GM feels that a feat is too strong and wants to disallow it, he has every right to do so, but this applies to any and all feats whatever the source (even those in the CRB).
They are in the bestiary as a part of 3.5 legacy, and the fact that in 3.5 most players would have had no reason to use them. By putting the monster feats in the monster book it saves some space in the player book. It was not an issue of power.
As I have pointed out before the book even supports players having them.
Most of the following feats apply specifically to monsters, although some player characters might qualify for them (particularly Craft Construct).
Now a feat such as snatch or multi-weapon fighting is one most players will never get to use, but the book never says "feat X is not intended for player use".
No, this feat does not say it's only for monsters. Yes, that means PCs could use this feat. But the question is, where?
I don't think it's allowed in PFS. Anywhere else, it's up to the DM, not the player, whether it's allowed or not.
Quicken Spell is a fun idea but it bumps the spell up 4 levels, so a Quickened Darkness (for example) would have to be placed in a 5th level slot and could only be used one time for each time you do that - if you want it 3 times/day you have to use three 5th level spell slots. This means losing other abilities so what you're paying is a feat for the opportunity to trade one or more high-level spells for quickened low-level spells.
Quicken Spell-Like Ability would allow a creature that can cast Darkness as a SLA to use this up to three times with no penalty. No trades, no loss of other ability. Just pay for the feat and Boom! Quickened ability 3/day.
That's pretty powerful. I don't blame any DM for disallowing that on PC abilities.
Wizard: Hey, check this out. I took one feat and now I can replace a 5th level spell with Quickened Darkness. What should I give up, Cone of Cold, Teleport, or my Empowered Fireball?
Drow: Give up, are you kidding me? I took one feat and now I can cast Quickened darkness and I don't give anything up at all. I guess it sucks to be a wizard...Given the nature of this feat, I'd suggest to anyone to clear it with the DM before you show up one day with it on your character sheet.
Most (all?) classes will not get "Spell-Like Abilities" and spells are treated differently than SLAs. So most characters never actually meet the requirements of Quicken Spell-like Ability.
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Most (all?) classes will not get "Spell-Like Abilities" and spells are treated differently than SLAs. So most characters never actually meet the requirements of Quicken Spell-like Ability.
A lot of the wizard specializations, cleric domains, and sorcerer bloodlines grant spell-like abilities. Those abilities are usually pretty useless by 10th level and being able to quicken them keeps them at least moderately useful.
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Casters also tend to be a bit feat starved. So sure it makes your bad class abilities less bad, but it's not a "good" buy, by any means.
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Please read the full feat before condemning it as broken.
Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Monster)
This creature can use one of its spell-like abilities with next to no effort.
Prerequisite: Spell-like ability at CL 10th or higher.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature's spell-like abilities, subject to the restrictions described in this feat. The creature can use the chosen spell-like ability as a quickened spell-like ability three times per day (or less, if the ability is normally usable only once or twice per day).
Using a quickened spell-like ability is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The creature can perform another action—including the use of another spell-like ability (but not another swift action)—in the same round that it uses a quickened spell-like ability. The creature may use only one quickened spell-like ability per round.
The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to 1/2 its caster level (round down) – 4. For a summary, see Table: Quickened Spell-Like Abilities.
A spell-like ability that duplicates a spell with a casting time greater than 1 full round cannot be quickened.
You have to first be able to cast the SLA at a CL 10. Then it has to duplicate a spell, so all those class SLA which have no spell analogies are out. Then you have to be at a level equal to twice the spell level +4. So the drow's Darkness you can only get Quickened once per day when you hit level 10.
BTW. The feats for Drow, that makes them a noble drow as they take them are much more powerful then this combo.
Sorry I posted, then reread the rules and had to heavily edit my post, so I just deleted it and now posting my edited post.
Sorry about not really answering your question Kazumetsa.
Is it possible to acquire the feat Quicken Spell-Like Ability in Pathfinder? We are running the Rise of the Runelords campaign and I am rolling with a Level 3 Vanaras Qinggong Monk at the moment. The main reason I'm debating it is because of Blood Crow Strike and possibly duplicating it for two full-round attacks.
No you can't. Blood Crow Strike casting time is one round. You can only quicken a SLA that casting time is a full-round or less. One Round is more then a full-round. So with Blood Crow Strike you charge the spell for a whole round, and then at the beginning of your next turn the spell triggers and you then do your actions for the round. In Blood Crow strikes case either unarmed attacks as part of a single of full-attack action or furry of blows as a full-attack action.
Sorry I posted, then reread the rules and had to heavily edit my post, so I just deleted it and now posting my edited post.
Sorry about not really answering your question Kazumetsa.
Is it possible to acquire the feat Quicken Spell-Like Ability in Pathfinder? We are running the Rise of the Runelords campaign and I am rolling with a Level 3 Vanaras Qinggong Monk at the moment. The main reason I'm debating it is because of Blood Crow Strike and possibly duplicating it for two full-round attacks.No you can't. Blood Crow Strike casting time is one round. You can only quicken a SLA that casting time is a full-round or less. One Round is more then a full-round. So with Blood Crow Strike you charge the spell for a whole round, and then at the beginning of your next turn the spell triggers and you then do your actions for the round. In Blood Crow strikes case either unarmed attacks as part of a single of full-attack action or furry of blows as a full-attack action.
Not quite clear but I think it is intended to work on spells with a full round casting time as well. The description contradicts itself.
Quicken Spell (Metamagic)
You can cast spells in a fraction of the normal time.
Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 round or 1 full-round action cannot be quickened.
Level Increase: +4 (a quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level.)
Casting a quickened spell doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell's casting time.
Full round yes, but not spells with a casting time of 1 round. Blood Crow Strike is like Summon Monster/Nature's Ally. It take one whole round, from the start of your turn to the start of your next turn to cast. If any time you are hit while casting it before the start of your next turn you have to make a concentration check or lose the spell.
FWIW, darkness requires a caster level of 12 (12/2 = 6, -4 = 2).
As for domain abilities, the language is quite tricky:
"The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to 1/2 its caster level (round down) – 4."
The language can very easily be read as the restriction being on the level of the spell, not that it duplicates a spell. So if an ability says it is considered equivalent to a spell of X level, it qualifies. There were some 3.5 FAQ's that clarified the spell level of such abilities (e.g. Eldritch Blast for warlocks). Typically an ability would equal to the level of spell a caster would have at the class level the ability was gained (1st or 4th for most domain abilities).
I most certainly allow Quicken Spell-like Ability to apply to domain abilities. I also most certainly require a player to check with me before using Bestiary feats, as they are outside the Core Rulebook.
All this is outside PFS of course.
Well I think the duplicates the spell, is just to make it easy to figure out. As a GM myself I would allow it on various class SLA, but not all.
Thanks for noticing my mistake about Darkness. It would be a 1st lvl spell that would require lvl 10.
No you can't. Blood Crow Strike casting time is one round. You can only quicken a SLA that casting time is a full-round or less. One Round is more then a full-round.
The FAQ states that you can, in fact, quicken spells with a casting time of "1 round":
Quicken Spell: Can you use Quicken Spell on a spell with a casting time of "1 round" (such as enlarge person)? Can you use it on a spell with a casting time of "1 full round" (such as a spontaneous caster using a metamagic feat on a spell)?
Yes and yes. Neither type has a longer casting time than the "longer than 1 full-round action" limitation of Quicken Spell, therefore both can be quickened.
This means that a sorcerer could cast an empowered quickened magic missile as a swift action. Likewise, as multiple metamagic feats don't push the casting time longer than 1 full-round action, a sorcerer could cast an empowered silent stilled quickened magic missile as a swift action.
The same should thus apply to quickening SLA's.
It should be noted, a Quickened Blood Crow Strike wouldn't let you make 2 full attacks in a round. It's a spell that lets you make ranged unarmed attacks against a single target (which, apparently, lasts forever against that target once it's been used), it doesn't let you make extra attacks as part of the spell though, you still have to use your normal attack sequence.