So wait...
You have a slew of AstroTurf organizations that are effectively a mouthpiece for the republican party popping up like mushrooms and claiming a tax exempt status that prevents you from supporting specific candidates and you don't think the IRS is supposed to look into it?
BNW: Do they look into the astroturf organizations that spout the Democratic party line with equal rigor?
This is nothing new.
Senator Ted Stevens was completely exonerated on his corruption investigation, pertaining to getting a new deck installed on his home in 2004.
The corruption investigation's first official DoJ paperwork started in March of 20007. It was not kicked into high investigation mode until the summer of 2008...conveniently, when Stevens was running for re-election.
The prosecutors were A) both deeply tied into the Democratic party and B) cited for gross prosecutorial misconduct.
If this had been a Republican DoJ doing an investigation of a Democratic Senator up for re-election, it would've been called high partisanship and misdemeanors and there would have been screaming how this was was meant to shift the outcome of an election that would change the makeup of the Senate.
(Stevens losing in 2008 is one of the reasons why Obama had a Democratic Senate for his first term.)
Lest you think that the claim of prosecutorial misconduct is just Glen Beck whining...notable conservative media outlet NPR wrote this on it - in 2012. Three years after Eric Holder dismissed all charges on prosecutorial misconduct.
Pay particular attention to the timeline - and the IRS's involvement.
Ted Stevens Corruption Case Timeline
NPR article, four years after the fact.
Edited to link the news pieces.
So wait...
You have a slew of AstroTurf organizations that are effectively a mouthpiece for the republican party popping up like mushrooms and claiming a tax exempt status that prevents you from supporting specific candidates and you don't think the IRS is supposed to look into it?
I'm not sure what you mean by "that prevents you from supporting specific candidates". You are going to have to clarify that for me.
Also as pointed out there are plenty of AstroTurf organizations that are mouthpieces of the Democratic Party.
I don't think anyone is against the IRS being diligent about proper application of this tax exempt status (well except for those that want to get rid of the IRS entire, and this situation isn't exactly helping the IRS's reputation).
But keep in mind the IRS (a) targeted specific groups based on key phrases that only show up on one area of the political spectrum. Which is bad enough, but it also may mean that they focused so much on those groups that they missed other groups from other areas of the political spectrum. And (b) they were asking these groups for information that they could not legally ask for (such as personal information about backers and their families).
There probably wasn't any political motivation involved, there was probably just some low level workers trying to cut corners to deal with an increasing larger set of people trying for this status. This was a way to cut out some quickly. The problem is that anyone with half a brain should have realized this looks like a steaming pile of crap and they should avoid any appearance of this type of thing, whether legitimate or not. "Performance is no substitute for Appearance."
Yeah, I'm not seeing the connections, can you draw the lines a little more clearly for us slower people.
I'm not sure what you mean by "that prevents you from supporting specific candidates". You are going to have to clarify that for me.
Tax exempt organizations can advocate for laws on specific issues but cannot endorse specific candidates and keep their tax exempt status. So for example, a wolf center can say "we oppose wolf hunting, here is senator A's position on the matter. Here is senator B's position on the matter" but cannot say "Vote for senator B"
Also as pointed out there are plenty of AstroTurf organizations that are mouthpieces of the Democratic Party.
I don't think the democrats have ever had the funds of the central planning to lay THAT Much astroturf.
But keep in mind the IRS (a) targeted specific groups based on key phrases that only show up on one area of the political spectrum.
Well lets see, you have a slew of new groups going up. You see the tea party of Judea crossing the line. You see another group called the Judean tea party crossing the line. After that you see another group called the Judean tea party front crossing the line. Maybe you start to notice a pattern because despite being a government employee you're not a total idiot.
There probably wasn't any political motivation involved, there was probably just some low level workers trying to cut corners to deal with an increasing larger set of people trying for this status. This was a way to cut out some quickly. The problem is that anyone with half a brain should have realized this looks like a steaming pile of crap and they should avoid any appearance of this type of thing, whether legitimate or not. "Performance is no substitute for Appearance."
So wait, we should avoid looking like we're discriminating even if we aren't? Isn't that the democrats line?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Re impeachment. One of the charges specifically was using the IRS to target 'enemies' Apparently BNW doesn't feel this rises to high crimes.
Also, these groups were targets specifically because of their beliefs. BNW seems fine with that. So they 'had it coming' I'm just wondering if those he feels that way about those girls in Cleveland "Well she took a ride home with a stranger, it's her own fault." It also looks like they were going after groups that *gasp* wanted an informed populace. And there's now reports of Jewish groups being targeted.
but hey, BNW has no problem with the government investigating him because he's speaking out right?
No worries though. After all the IRS is going to be the enforcer of Obamacare. Surely they'd never abuse that power.
BNW: Do they look into the astroturf organizations that spout the Democratic party line with equal rigor?
The dems have never had the kind of central funding for astroturf that the Koch brothers supplied. I'm sure the dems would use it if they had it, but for some odd reason billionaires seem to hold the opinion that billionaires should hold onto their money.
Senator Ted Stevens was completely exonerated on his corruption investigation, pertaining to getting a new deck installed on his home in 2004
80,000 to 250,000 dollars (depending on how you believe it should be billed) worth of work is NOT a "deck". Mind you, I don't think its a case of him being more corrupt than anyone else, its just that the money being spent is a little obvious when its on your house than when its say, in your fridge.
I don't see what this has to do with the IRS investigation of the tea party franchise, unless you're alleging some kind of broader conspiracy against the right.
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So it's not just targetting the Tea Party. Which means the claim that the IRS is just doing this as a political move, maybe isn't true given, generally, Jewish groups are more likely to support Democrats, right?
Also, the "deserved it" line of argument you used? Really beneath you, Matthew. Unless of course you really are an a!@!#$@*. Which I hope isn't the case as you're usually better than that.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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@Paul It was specifically targeting groups with 'tea party' and 'patriot' in their name. The IRS then lied about it.
And now that BNW has raised the boogyman of the Koch brothers (apparently in his view Soros doens't exist, and MMFA is a figment of the imagination) I'm quite convinced my analogy was correct. He feels the tea party groups 'had it coming'.
But I've said my piece, I'm done with it.
BNW seems fine with that. So they 'had it coming' I'm just wondering if those he feels that way about those girls in Cleveland "Well she took a ride home with a stranger, it's her own fault."
Dude, what the hell.
First off, you're making Glen Beck look sane which just upsets the natural order of the universe.
Secondly you're making an absurdly hyperbolic comparison of irs investigations (which are part of their job) looking like they were conducted a disproportionate number of times to certain groups to an unspeakably cruel kidnapping and hundreds of rapes. I think a little perspective is in order here. Its this kind of inanity and arm flailing that gets your conspiracy theories chucked in the bin. You can only cry wolf so many times.
So wait, we should avoid looking like we're discriminating even if we aren't? Isn't that the democrats line?
Isn't that who we are talking about? ;)
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AP Exclusive: IRS knew tea party targeted in 2011Homeland Security Tracked Occupy Wall Street 'Peaceful Activist Demonstrations'
Now, finally, Occupy and the Tea Party have something in common!
Also as pointed out there are plenty of AstroTurf organizations that are mouthpieces of the Democratic Party.
Psh, if only. The Democratic party is actually really great at amassing real grassroots support, but is much less proficient (or, perhaps more accurately, less well-equipped) at manufacturing support out of thin air. As BNW points out, the Democratic party doesn't have anywhere near the level of behind-the-curtain string-pulling going on. Democrats are still learning the ropes of effective astroturfing. Republicans, on the other hand, wrote the textbook.
Also as pointed out there are plenty of AstroTurf organizations that are mouthpieces of the Democratic Party.Psh, if only. The Democratic party is actually really great at amassing real grassroots support, but is much less proficient (or, perhaps more accurately, less well-equipped) at manufacturing support out of thin air. As BNW points out, the Democratic party doesn't have anywhere near the level of behind-the-curtain string-pulling going on. Democrats are still learning the ropes of effective astroturfing. Republicans, on the other hand, wrote the textbook.
Either that or Democrats are really alot better at it...being behind the scenes and all.
Either that or Democrats are really alot better at it...being behind the scenes and all.Also as pointed out there are plenty of AstroTurf organizations that are mouthpieces of the Democratic Party.Psh, if only. The Democratic party is actually really great at amassing real grassroots support, but is much less proficient (or, perhaps more accurately, less well-equipped) at manufacturing support out of thin air. As BNW points out, the Democratic party doesn't have anywhere near the level of behind-the-curtain string-pulling going on. Democrats are still learning the ropes of effective astroturfing. Republicans, on the other hand, wrote the textbook.
Haha, I won't deny that this is a possibility, but a slim one. If the Democratic party really were full of expert shadow manipulators, we'd be a lot better at avoiding that whole snatching-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory thing that Democrats are known for.
CHOPE!!!
AP Exclusive: IRS knew tea party targeted in 2011Homeland Security Tracked Occupy Wall Street 'Peaceful Activist Demonstrations'Now, finally, Occupy and the Tea Party have something in common!
You mean besides being screwed over by the same economic factors and being completely ineffectual?
