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If I were making an Aasimar Bard and I took Scion of Humanity and then the Fast Learner feat, would I be able to take the Human favored class option for Bards (additional spells known) and the Aasimar favored class option for Bards (+1/2 level for one bardic performance) at each level?
Scion of Humanity
Some aasimars' heavenly ancestry is extremely distant. An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids. She can pass for human without using the Disguise skill. This racial trait replaces the Celestial language and alters the native subtype.
Fast Learner
Prerequisites: Int 13, human.
Benefit: When you gain a level in a favored class, you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward.
I would say no. The feat still only allows a single alternate favored class reward.
Fast Learner replaces the favored class option by allowing to choose both (+1 hp and +1 skill rank) or alternate favored class reward. Normally you can only choose +1 hp or +1 skill rank or alternate favored class reward.
Edit: Not sure if you even can take the human favored class option. Though I can see it being argued either way.
Yes, you can take Fast Learner,
But can NOT take the Human favored class option
So using your example they could take the "+1/2 level for one bardic performance" but not the "additional spells known."
I appreciate the quick responses. I want to question them a bit more because I'm trying to understand the way the rules would work in this particular case.
I would say no. The feat still only allows a single alternate favored class reward.
Fast Learner replaces the favored class option by allowing to choose both (+1 hp and +1 skill rank) or alternate favored class reward. Normally you can only choose +1 hp or +1 skill rank or alternate favored class reward.
I don't see anything saying that Fast Learner 'replaces' the favored class option (important terminology there since 'replaces' is very official). I read it as saying that instead of getting one favored class option, you get two, whether its the standard +1 hp and +1 skill rank or any other favored class option that you would be eligible for.
Yes, you can take Fast Learner,
But can NOT take the Human favored class optionSo using your example they could take the "+1/2 level for one bardic performance" but not the "additional spells known."
And this response directly affects that last part - favored class option that you would be eligible for. I have to believe that if I count as a Human 'for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids' then that would include favored class options as well. For all intents and purposes I AM human - there is certainly nothing I see there that would single favored class options out.
Is there a part of this I'm either misreading or a progression of the logic that I've missed?
The "for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids"
Effect here is referring to things like Bane, Favored Enemy, and a few others,
but NOT Racial Archetypes and Racial favored class options as these Racial options are explicitly tied to that race, no exceptions.
The only way you can is, if the GM gives it the green light.
The "for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids"
Effect here is referring to things like Bane, Favored Enemy, and a few others, but NOT Racial Archetypes and Racial favored class options as these Racial options are explicitly tied to that race, no exceptions.
The only way you can is, if the GM gives it the green light.
So it appears to be based on the technical definition of the word 'effect', then? A race-based feat pre-requisite being an 'effect' but a race-based favored class option not? If that's the ruling I can certainly accept that, but unless there is a list somewhere of exactly what's an effect and what is not it seems terribly vague and non-specific.
Nothing came up in my search on the subject which is why I posted here - can you point me towards the discussion?
I don't see anything saying that Fast Learner 'replaces' the favored class option (important terminology there since 'replaces' is very official). I read it as saying that instead of getting one favored class option, you get two, whether its the standard +1 hp and +1 skill rank or any other favored class option that you would be eligible for.
Fast Learner: "When you gain a level in a favored class, you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward."
Fast Learner doesn't allow you to pick multiple alternate class rewards.
You can either choose one alternate class reward, or you can choose to gain both 1 HP and 1 skill rank.
FAQ post marked "Answered in the FAQ" (It hasn't been, yet)
Feats not effects. They are an explicitly permitted option.
If what you're saying is that 'feats are not effects' then the wording of the ability seems to contradict that:
An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids.
The term 'including' seems to make it clear that a feat is indeed an effect - presumably that means 'including but not limited to' as I would hate to think that 'any effect related to race' would encompass more than just spells that affect humanoids and feat pre-requsities...
After all, one would never say 'all great cats, including the elephant' would they?
I don't see anything saying that Fast Learner 'replaces' the favored class option (important terminology there since 'replaces' is very official). I read it as saying that instead of getting one favored class option, you get two, whether its the standard +1 hp and +1 skill rank or any other favored class option that you would be eligible for.Fast Learner: "When you gain a level in a favored class, you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward."
Fast Learner doesn't allow you to pick multiple alternate class rewards.
You can either choose one alternate class reward, or you can choose to gain both 1 HP and 1 skill rank.
FAQ post marked "Answered in the FAQ" (It hasn't been, yet)
Thank you very much for posting those links... sorry to say though it seems as if its only confused the issue even more. Here is a quote by the author:
It's (skill point + hp) *or* {alt favored class bonus).It seemed clear enough to me when I wrote it, but if you think it's questionable or ambiguous for PFS then write up the character both ways and use whichever one the sitting GM or whomever is the boss of the PFS event to clarify for you on the spot.
Wait - so the benefit of the feat is to allow me to get +1 hp and +1 skill rank (which is effectively a weakened version of Toughness) OR to get an 'alternate favored class bonus'? What is an alternate favored class bonus? I assume that would be the standard option available to every class and every race, like the human's additional spells for bards or a dwarf's extra uses of a Domain power... but if its something everyone automatically gets anyway regardless of race or class, why would I need to be a human AND take a feat to get access to an alternate favored class bonus? Why would that even be deliberately included in the feat description?
When I look at the feat's description AND the fact that its a feat at all, I have to believe that either 1) its a race-specific feat that does exactly what another feat available to everyone (Toughness) does but not as well, 2) its a race-specific feat that explicitly allows something every race gets anyway for free including the race it is restricted to, or 3) its race and attribute pre-requisites and the fact that its a feat at all means that its intended to give some sort of bonus or benefit, and the logical extrapolation of that benefit is that you get to choose two of the normal options available to you instead of one (i.e. +1 skill rank, +1 hit point or whatever favored class options you are eligible for - which in most cases woudl be one, but under special circumstances like Scion of Humanity, might well be more than one).
