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I have a bit of a situation with my wizard in my Tuesday game. We are level 5, and my wizard was bitten and poisoned by a Con draining poison (lasts 6 rounds, was poisoned twice, thus I believe the duration is 12 rounds?), and has been failing her saves each time.
It is 5 rounds in the duration, and I have lost 7 constitution points (started at 14, down to 7). I started out with 28 maximum hit points. Losing 4 points of Constitution Modifier, that drops me by 20 max hp, to a maximum of 8. Now, I still have 7 more rounds of poison left.
My question is this: If I lose 4 more Con to this poison (reducing my Con to 3), that would reduce my maximum hit points to -2. If my maximum hp is 0 or less, but I still have a Constitution score above 0 (being 3), am I still alive? Or would that qualify me as completely dead? Personally, I think having maximum hit points at less than 1 would equal death, but wanted to make sure.
In this instance I think you would be unconscious. Gaining HP, minimum 1 per level has nothing to do with con or hit point loss or poison.
Additional doses of poison being applied when the poison is already active only increases the duration by half the normal duration.
So first application in your case is 6 rounds. The second application only adds 3 more rounds. A third, fourth, etc, application would add another 3 rounds each.
bbangerter is right about the duration. Also, you said Con draining, but if you meant Con Damaging (deals Con Damage instead of Con Drain), then you only take the hp penalty for every two points of damage. This would mean you're only down 15 hp, but 1 more damage would take you down 20.
If it really is dealing Constitution Drain, ignore the above (but that's pretty rare).
You definitely wouldn't be dead at <0 total hit-points, unless your current hit-points drops to your negative Con score. You could be unconscious for quite some time (feverish coma perhaps).
We are level 5, and my wizard was bitten and poisoned by a Con draining poison (lasts 6 rounds, was poisoned twice, thus I believe the duration is 12 rounds?)
It doesn't work that way by RAW. If you are poisoned several times by the same kind of poison, the duration augments by half the duration of the poison, and the DC is augmented by +2. But any other things does not change (including success saves count).
For your example : Let's imagine the poison as being Drain 1d2 CON each round for 7 rounds ;healing 2 saves, DC 17.
He is hit one time : 7 rounds of DC 17, 2 success saves remove the poison.
The next round, he succeed at resisting the poison.
He is hit one more time, 2 rounds later : 8 rounds of DC 19, 2 success saves remove the poison (1 success remaining).
The success are counted from the first contact with poison, not the last.
If the character had succeed at resisting the poison, it all start over normally.
My question is this: If I lose 4 more Con to this poison (reducing my Con to 3), that would reduce my maximum hit points to -2. If my maximum hp is 0 or less, but I still have a Constitution score above 0 (being 3), am I still alive? Or would that qualify me as completely dead? Personally, I think having maximum hit points at less than 1 would equal death, but wanted to make sure.
Your max HP can't go below 1 HP per HD. However, your actual HP will go down without that limit. And if you reach your actual score of constitution in negative HP (accounting for the drain), you die.
For example : your wizard, if he reaches 2 CON, will always have at least 5 HP for its maximum, but if he reaches -2 or worse (his actual CON score) for his actual HP, he dies.
If your current hit points is a negative number, then you're dead. Also, if your Constitution score reaches 0 (only applicable if this is CON drain), then you're dead. You also die if the amount of CON damage you take equals or exceeds your CON score.
From your description, it sounds like you might have been affected by burnt othur fumes (a very expensive poison, by the way, at 2,100 gp per dose). It last 6 rounds, but only the initial effect is a CON drain. Subsequent rounds simply deal CON damage.
And yes, CON damage and CON drain can both be very lethal.
Ability Score Damage, Penalty, and Drain
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.
Strength: Damage to your Strength score causes you to take penalties on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The penalty also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and your Combat Maneuver Defense.
Dexterity: Damage to your Dexterity score causes you to take penalties on Dexterity-based skill checks, ranged attack rolls, initiative checks, and Reflex saving throws. The penalty also applies to your Armor Class, your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Tiny or smaller), and to your Combat Maneuver Defense.
Constitution: Damage to your Constitution score causes you to take penalties on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this penalty and subtract that amount from your current and total hit points. Lost hit points are restored when the damage to your Constitution is healed.
Intelligence: Damage to your Intelligence score causes you to take penalties on Intelligence-based skill checks. This penalty also applies to any spell DCs based on Intelligence.
Wisdom: Damage to your Wisdom score causes you to take penalties on Wisdom-based skill checks and Will saving throws. This penalty also applies to any spell DCs based on Wisdom.
Charisma: Damage to your Charisma score causes you to take penalties on Charisma-based skill checks. This penalty also applies to any spell DCs based off Charisma and the DC to resist your channeled energy.
Ability Drain: Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. Ability drain can be healed through the use of spells such as restoration.
Oops. Yeah, it deals 1d2 Constitution Damage. First 4 rounds he rolled 2 (taking me down to 8, or -1 modifier), and the 5th round the damage was only 1 (dropping me to 7, or a -2 modifier). So, even though my Con modifier is -2, I still have 13 hp?
And thanks for clarifying the duration. So that leaves 4 rounds of poison left (cure is on 2 successful saves, and so far I haven't rolled higher than a 5). So, I still have a chance of dying (failed save, DM rolls 2 each time, bringing me to 0 Con, even if he rolls a 1 once), or getting a Con score of 3 (reducing me to -2 hp).
We are fighting water naga. Save DC of 19 (bitten twice, so 21), and deals 1d2 Con damage per round for 6 rounds (bitten twice, so 9 rounds), 2 saves needed to cure. Combat has been 5 rounds already, dealing 7 Con damage (failed all 5 rounds). Going by the quote listed above for the Constitution Damage, it says I multiply my total HD (5) by the penalty, and subtract that from current and total hit points. What penalty are they referring to? The new Con modifier (-2 for a Con of 7)?
While I am not new to pathfinder/dnd, I am completely new to ability damage (especially to such a vital score as Constitution).
, it will only drop you to 5 and that's it, you'll be at 5 max HP until you recover or die, whichever comes first.
I agree for your max HP, but your current HP keeps diminishing, even if your max HP doesn't go below. You will die with the next drain.
Oops. Yeah, it deals 1d2 Constitution Damage. First 4 rounds he rolled 2 (taking me down to 8, or -1 modifier), and the 5th round the damage was only 1 (dropping me to 7, or a -2 modifier). So, even though my Con modifier is -2, I still have 13 hp?
And thanks for clarifying the duration. So that leaves 4 rounds of poison left (cure is on 2 successful saves, and so far I haven't rolled higher than a 5). So, I still have a chance of dying (failed save, DM rolls 2 each time, bringing me to 0 Con, even if he rolls a 1 once), or getting a Con score of 3 (reducing me to -2 hp).
Let's see if I see the situation well.
I will account for the 2d6 + 5 the naga deals with each hit.
Round 0 (before combat)
You have 14 CON, you have [28 / 28] HP (max).
Round 1
You get hit (for 7 damage), and get poisoned for DC 19, for 6 rounds (6 rounds left).
You fail the save, and get CON damage 2.
You have 14 CON (but a special modifier of -1 HP per DV, because of 2 CON damage). You have [16 / 23] HP.
Round 2
You get hit (for 8 damage), and get poisoned for DC 21, for 3 rounds (8 rounds left).
You fail the save, and get CON damage 2.
You have 14 CON (but a special modifier of -2 HP per DV, because of 4 CON damage). You have [3 / 18] HP.
Round 3
You didn't get hit. 7 rounds left for poison (DC 21).
You fail the save, and get CON damage 2.
You have 14 CON (but a special modifier of -3 HP per DV, because of 6 CON damage). You have [-2 / 13] HP.
Round 4
You didn't get hit. 6 rounds left for poison (DC 21).
You fail the save, and get CON damage 2.
You have 14 CON (but a special modifier of -4 HP per DV, because of 8 CON damage). You have [-7 / 8] HP.
Round 5
You didn't get hit. 5 rounds left for poison (DC 21).
You fail the save, and get CON damage 1.
You have 14 CON (but a special modifier of -4 HP per DV, because of 9 CON damage). You have [-7 / 8] HP.
Did I manage to succesfully interpret your words ?
Now, if next round you get another damage in CON, then you will reach (-12/5) HP. However, as it is CON damage and not drain, you could go until -14/5 HP before being dead.
I counted almost min damage for the naga.
We are fighting water naga. Save DC of 19 (bitten twice, so 21), and deals 1d2 Con damage per round for 6 rounds (bitten twice, so 9 rounds), 2 saves needed to cure. Combat has been 5 rounds already, dealing 7 Con damage (failed all 5 rounds). Going by the quote listed above for the Constitution Damage, it says I multiply my total HD (5) by the penalty, and subtract that from current and total hit points. What penalty are they referring to? The new Con modifier (-2 for a Con of 7)?
While I am not new to pathfinder/dnd, I am completely new to ability damage (especially to such a vital score as Constitution).
Say you had a con score of 20, and now it is a 13
20=+5
13=+1
The difference is 4
So 4XHD= hit points lost
In your case
4X5=20
Say you had a con score of 20, and now it is a 13
20=+5
13=+1The difference is 4
So 4XHD= hit points lost
In your case
4X5=20
Not in pathfinder.
You have been dealt 7 CON damage, then you will lose 3 HP per HD, 3 to each Fortitude save and CON checks. And that's it.
Say you had a con score of 20, and now it is a 13
20=+5
13=+1The difference is 4
So 4XHD= hit points lost
In your case
4X5=20
Not in pathfinder.
You have been dealt 7 CON damage, then you will lose 3 HP per HD, 3 to each Fortitude save and CON checks. And that's it.
You are correct. I hate that rule. The other way is easier to deal with for the purpose of math. I was hoping it was wrong, but I can't find any proof.
It might be houserule time.
What penalty are they referring to?
The penalty they refer to is from the first paragraph, which is relevant for all the different types of ability damage:
"For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability."
Also note that some information particularly relevant to Constitution damage is only listed in that paragraph, specifically this one:
"If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die."
Not in pathfinder.
You have been dealt 7 CON damage, then you will lose 3 HP per HD, 3 to each Fortitude save and CON checks. And that's it.
Where is this elaborated on? I have checked my CRB and my bestiaries (thinking it would say in the Ability Damage entry in the glossary), and I found no where that it says you only take a -1 to your modifier every 2 points. Yes, technically the modifier goes down by 1 every 2 points (10-11, 12-13, 14-15, etc), which would then bring my modifier down to -2 (a score of 6-7 gives a modifier of -2).
Edit: Never mind this. Though it is rather confusing. This will help my little wizard survive just that much longer.
And one more thing. Combat went like this:
Surprise round: I failed Perception check, naga bites and poisons, doing 15 damage. I am at 13. I fail Fort vs poison.
Round 1: Naga gets higher initiative, bites and poisons again (increasing duration to 9 rounds). Does 9 damage. I am at 4. My turn comes, I fail Fort save, take 2 Con damage, losing 5 hp. Max is 23, current is -1. I fall unconscious. Oracle CMWs me, brings me to 10.
Round 2: Naga is blinded by glitterdust. My turn comes, I fail save, take 2 Con damage, losing 5 hp. Max is 18, current is 5. Oracle channels, bringing me to 18. Summoner casts create pit beneath it, forcing naga to "jump" back. There is now a pit between me and naga, so I am basically safe, though backed into a corner and can't move.
Round 3: I fail save, take 2 Con damage, losing 5 hp. Max is 13, current is 13.
Round 4: I fail save, take 1 Con damage. Con score is now effectively 7 (with 13 max and current hp, I am guessing?). 5 more rounds of poison (looks like I miscounted), for a total of 5-10 more Con damage, leaving me with a Con of 2 at best, dead at worst. And apparently I can never go below 5 max hp, though current hp can continue to decrease?
It is in the glossary.
Ability Score Damage, Penalty, and Drain
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.