What do you think would make a better intro class into a dimensional feat using shadowdancer, dawnflower dervish bard or some type of rogue?
Also, I love the improved deep sight feat (a party member has greater drow nobility planned) but I can't see how to squeeze it in with the prereqs.
rogue is not a strong intro class into shadow dancer. Dawnflower dervish is a much stronger option. In my opinion the best shadow dancers come with some sort of combination of monk/paladin/fighter or any of those individually up to 5.
I agree that rogue is not a good class to lead into the shadowdancer. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is. You are better off with the bard or a fighter of some type.
A paladin also works surprisingly well if you want to play that type of character. Ranger or monk could also work, not quite as well as the fighter or paladin because of the extra requirement for a good Wis, but it's doable.
Not sure how a rogue is bad. Ok so your sneak attack gets cut off early, but its still going to be more damage than a +4 favored enemy or 5 points of smite (10 if you are lucky with your opponent). Is it solely because of no particular bonus to hit?
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I personally love the flavor of the Barbarian/shadowdancer power house (shadowsteps behind ennemy line and gets angry). Archery works too as you shadowstep to a safer and better shooting spot. Fighter works and technically paladin too (but it has a weird taste to it)
I'm looking for someone very stealthy and deadly. I almost went assassin, but the drow is a necromancer, and there's a bone oracle too, so the shadow fits thematically.
Evil party. Pally isn't an option. Antipally may be viable, but the enemies are NOT good.
Why monk or fighter or the like?
I see monk mentioned a lot,but don't understand why.
Ranger Ranger. Ranger.
Monk I'd a master of mobility on the battlefield. Shadowdancer greatly enhances that, not to mention it gives you some good tricks that are very useful for the monk. Then throw in things like Nightmare Fist.
I agree that rogue is not a good class to lead into the shadowdancer. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is. You are better off with the bard or a fighter of some type.
A paladin also works surprisingly well if you want to play that type of character. Ranger or monk could also work, not quite as well as the fighter or paladin because of the extra requirement for a good Wis, but it's doable.
You might not necessarily have a problem with the monk. Taking a Master of Many Styles focused on crane style, you could easily go with no wisdom modifier, only 14 dexterity, and no armor and still end up with 16 AC (through fighting defensively) and the ability to just cancel out a melee attack each round. If you are human, you could have crane riposte (which gives a AoO on that canceled attack) by level 2 and only a -1 to attack while fighting defensively. You can later take fighter or ranger levels in order to get armor proficiencies to further boost you AC. (fighter would help collect the other prereq. feats for shadow dancer, ranger could give a strength build TWF)
I bring this up since it seems like an excellent play style to mix with the shadow dancer's concealment. "Oh, you got by the 20%-50% chance of missing me in the shadows? Sorry, DENIED!" *smack*
I'm not the optimizer that some of these guys are. Not by a long shot. But I'm gonna speak up for the Ninja- going Shadowdancer here.
Nope, I can't get shadowdancer until 8th level, because of bab.
But Ninja Tricks-->Combat Tricks helped me pay the feat penalty.
Ninja skillapalooza helped me pay the skill penalty.
I'm playing a fetchling, dex-focused, Two-weapon focused build, including the serpent runner tw trait.
I may not land a blow as often as the big guys.
But I've got 2 or 3 strikes to work with every round. (+12/+11/+12 to hit)
And my damage looks like...
scratch +4d6
nick +4d6
scrape +4d6
EVERY ROUND.
and with a wakizashi and improved critical (critical chance on 15 or better) there's usually an extra d6 or 2 of damage every round.
So on a bad round (I hit once) I'm dealing 5d6, and on a good round I'm dealing 16-17d6 (landing all 3, and one's a crit). I'm pretty happy.
I'm sure the optimizers can tell you why other classes are better. But if you can be a little patient and wait 2 more levels... shadowjumping and then sneak attacking seems just what the Shadowdancer was made for.
I don't think shadowdancer has a BAB requirement.
I almost chose ninja
I didn't want an eastern feel though.
Eastern feel is fluff. Just rebrand special abilities as an innate ability to draw on magic, but not manipulate it like a conventional caster.
I don't think shadowdancer has a BAB requirement.
I almost chose ninja
I didn't want an eastern feel though.
Yeah, it is mostly three feats (dodge, combat reflexes, and mobility) and some ranks in stealth that prevent you from taking it before level 5. Remember, it somewhat made for roguish characters, so they were not expecting too much from the 3/4 BAB classes.
I am playing an snowcaster elf in ROW campaign. I am planning on taking the PRC and was wondering if it is better then to go Ranger or Fighter to multiclass or just plain rouge. He works very well with our barbarian and one of the characters also plays a gnome sylvan blooded sorcerer with a triceratops.
I don't think shadowdancer has a BAB requirement.
I almost chose ninja
I didn't want an eastern feel though.
Ah, you are right. No BAB requirement. I'm just having to wait until 7th level, because I chose other feats besides the required ones (weapon finesse, and two weapon fighting).
You can do most of the same things with a two weapon rogue. And take combat trick a lot to get your required feats.
I just like wakizahi with improved critical for the 15-20 critical threat range. But you can get a similar effect with a keen weapon of your choice. And the Vanish Ninja Trick is tough to beat.
But the one thing I'm pointing out is shadow jumping + sneak attack is awesome. Especially if you can do it several times a round. It could be dagger +4d6/ dagger +4d6/ dagger +4d6. The important point is that you've shadow jumped into flanking position and you are getting in mondo sneak attack bonuses.
I was thinking of going 2h rogue since the talents let me get some of the feats I would need.
I can't speak for the Dawnflower Dervish bard, but I am currently playing a Dervish Dancer Bard with Shadowdancer levels and its been a fun experience. She is currently Dervish Dancer 11/Shadow Dancer 2 and functions pretty well as our sneaky individual and secondary front line fighter (the other is a Duelist/Fighter/Rogue).
Sorry for the long delay. I have been busy.
I think I will do a multiclass rogue3/fighter 2 into SD. This will net me as many feats as fighter 5(with combat trick), only one less BAB, and 2d6 sneak attack, trapfinding, and evasion.
With armor expert, mithral breastplate offers no armor check penalty.
Bravery sucks, but I can't see any decent archetypes for only two levels.
For that matter, it seems vanilla rogue is best, but considering shadowdancer will get evasion should I archetype that out?
I am thinking either two handed reach or (for uniqueness to a SD) sword n board. Probably just reach for extra AoOs though.
Any better chain than midnight stalker? Dimensional agility line is a must.
What about Lore Warden? Combat Expertise for free, and plenty of skill points, but you lose Medium Armor Prof.