In the Bestiary, every time there is an effect with a save you get something like
"Fort Save DC 15. The Save is Con based".
What does that mean? I understand the type of save and the DC. What is the bit about the save being based on a stat?
In the Bestiary, every time there is an effect with a save you get something like
"Fort Save DC 15. The Save is Con based".
What does that mean? I understand the type of save and the DC. What is the bit about the save being based on a stat?
A save dc is generally 10 + 1/2 the creatures hit dice + some ability modifier. A Con-based save means the save DC is calculated with the creatures constitution modifier.
Many save DCs are calculated using a standard formula, which is 10 +half HD + Ability Modifier. It's telling you which ability score was used, so that if you modify the creature you can correct the DC.
In the Bestiary, every time there is an effect with a save you get something like
"Fort Save DC 15. The Save is Con based".
What does that mean? I understand the type of save and the DC. What is the bit about the save being based on a stat?
If you adjust the creature's stats, the saving throw against the poison (or whatever) is based on the creature's constitution. So if for some reason someone cast Bear's Fortitude on it, the poison would get more powerful. If someone cast Bull's Strength on it, it wouldn't.
This is particularly important for spellcasters, which typically have Cha or Int-based spell save DCs, and are also smart enough to use stat boosting items. If you thought that the ghoul's paralysis was bad now, wait until it starts drinking potions....
Ah. I have struggled to find that answer in the book itself. Thanks so much that makes sense it is to allow the monster to improve.
When calculating the save DC for an ability (or spell), one of the creature's/character's ability modifiers is added in the calculation. Most of the time, the information of which ability score to use is unnecessary, as the calculation has already been performed.
However, it becomes important if that ability score is altered somehow (for instance, the creature with your example ability could be the target of a bear's endurance spell). In such cases, the information is necessary to determine how the save DC changes (in this case, the save DC for the example ability would increase by 2).
If you adjust the creature's stats, the saving throw against the poison (or whatever) is based on the creature's constitution. So if for some reason someone cast Bear's Fortitude on it, the poison would get more powerful. If someone cast Bull's Strength on it, it wouldn't. ... If you thought that the ghoul's paralysis was bad now, wait until it starts drinking potions....
However, it becomes important if that ability score is altered somehow (for instance, the creature with your example ability could be the target of a bear's endurance spell). In such cases, the information is necessary to determine how the save DC changes (in this case, the save DC for the example ability would increase by 2).
Well, except per RAW of Temporary Ability Bonuses, they DON'T affect DCs for anything except Spells. Permanent Ability Bonuses / those with durations over 24 hours affect all things normally related to a Stat, and that is where it is functionally useful to know what Stat is the source of these ability DCs. But Temporary modifiers have no effect (except for Spell DCs). I'm not saying that makes much sense or is a good rule, but that's the RAW, folks.
Ex and Su abilities tend to be 10 + 1/2 HD +ability modifer.
Spells and Spell-like are 10 + (effective) spell level +ability modifier (pretty much ALWAYS charisma for spell-likes).
]Well, except per RAW of Temporary Ability Bonuses, they DON'T affect DCs for anything except Spells. Permanent Ability Bonuses / those with durations over 24 hours affect all things normally related to a Stat, and that is where it is functionally useful to know what Stat is the source of these ability DCs. But Temporary modifiers have no effect (except for Spell DCs). I'm not saying that makes much sense or is a good rule, but that's the RAW, folks.
Strangely, that's also the case for ability damage, so apparently you can reduce a monster's ability scores without affecting their ability DC's at all.
Since Charisma actually does specifically alter the DC for channel energy, this makes me think that whoever wrote those rules limited the lists solely to the basics for PC classes. I don't think it was intended that save DCs for non-spell abilities would be unaffected by temporary ability score increases or decreases.
It's not just for changing the creature. It's also just plain nice to know where the hell these numbers they show are coming from. You can figure out how the attack bonus was added up, it's good to also be able to do that for save DCs, that it's not just some arbitrary number.
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It's not just for changing the creature. It's also just plain nice to know where the hell these numbers they show are coming from. You can figure out how the attack bonus was added up, it's good to also be able to do that for save DCs, that it's not just some arbitrary number.
Sure...but also, there's an actual use for the information. That's why it's in the stats, instead of just hidden away in the descriptions of the abilities.