Just thought about the possibility of sone "Master of the Hunt Type" character by taking Eldritch Heritage(Sylvan)again and again, each time getting a new Companion and building myself a little pack of Animal Companions.
There seems to be nothing that forbids taking this feat multiple times. This way I could get myself a strong team of nasty animals. In theory one could do the same stacking familiars(Arcane Bond)or even Bonded Items with this feat.
I'm also thinking about taking this feat with my Crafter Wizard to stack Familiars(Archetype: Valet) each time multiplying the woldamount I can craft each day.
Is this legal? Should this be restricted? Thoughts?
You cannot take a feat multiple times unless the feat specifically says so. For example, Fleet specifically states that you can take it multiple times. Same with Weapon Focus, although you have to pick a new weapon each time.
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There are multiple reasons why this won't work. One is, you can't take any feat multiple times unless it is specifically allowed by the feat. Second, Sylvan is not actually a bloodline, it is an archetype modification of the fae bloodline. Lastly, to get the animal companion, you'd have to take both the the arcana and the 1st level bloodline power of Sylvan which Eldritch Heritage doesn't provide.
Well, so it doesn't work. And I thought, I detected something truly awesome.
Taking Arcane bloodline for an extra wizard Familiar should work however?
There are multiple reasons why this won't work. One is, you can't take any feat multiple times unless it is specifically allowed by the feat. Second, Sylvan is not actually a bloodline, it is an archetype modification of the fae bloodline. Lastly, to get the animal companion, you'd have to take both the the arcana and the 1st level bloodline power of Sylvan which Eldritch Heritage doesn't provide.
Unless there's been an FAQ I haven't heard about, this is not true. It's contested whether bloodline archetypes are not bloodlines (I personally think this is a load of tripe).
The other half is 100% correct, can't take the feat multiple times.
Just thought about the possibility of sone "Master of the Hunt Type" character by taking Eldritch Heritage(Sylvan)again and again, each time getting a new Companion and building myself a little pack of Animal Companions.
For what its worth, I have a Kitsune Sorcerer (Fey-Sylvan Bloodline) who takes the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Arcane Bloodline. That gives her an Animal Companion and a Familiar - I selected an Ankylosaurus as a bodyguard AC and a Compsognathus as my Familiar... though both had to be re-imagined as fey creatures since we have no dinosaurs in our campaign. She also dips one level of Nature Oracle for the Friends to the Animals revelation - if I had chosen Bonded Mount instead, it would have given me a second animal companion though at a lower level of effectiveness.
Once you start factoring in her abilities to Charm and Dominate humanoids and monsters, she can get quite a little cadre going at times.
Unless there's been an FAQ I haven't heard about, this is not true. It's contested whether bloodline archetypes are not bloodlines (I personally think this is a load of tripe).The other half is 100% correct, can't take the feat multiple times.
Well the Wildbloods are listed as archtypes that modify a bloodline. Ergo they are NOT bloodlines themselves but archetypes that require a particular bloodline. And EH specifies bloodline not archetype. Though in most cases I think the switch is probably reasonable in play, that's not the same thing. Unless you can point to something particular about the Wildblooded archetypes?
Still wouldn't work for Sylvan though so kinda a moot point here. But probably an object demonstration the Wildbloods are archetypes modifying bloodlines, not actually bloodlines.
But probably an object demonstration the Wildbloods are archetypes modifying bloodlines, not actually bloodlines.
How so? I don't see your logic. Worse, I don't understand peoples not wanting people to take eldritch heritage with wildblooded bloodlines. If you relabeled it and said it wasn't wildblooded it wouldn't be any different than a normal bloodline.
Thought you can't take eldritch heritage 30 times without GM's permission, and if you could you could take arcane over and over, I would like to suggest an alternative that you could play one of the archetypes that lets you divide up your pet into a pack of pets. You could have a whole murder of crows or pack of wolves or whatever you would like, and you wouldn't have to pay every time one dies.
My take is that they are at current considered archetypes and thus you need the archtype to get them. However if ruled not to be archetypes but something closer to subdomains then they would be applicable to everyone.
Gonna necro my thread on the subject if it ain't locked maybe we can get more FAQ clicks.
How so? I don't see your logic. Worse, I don't understand peoples not wanting people to take eldritch heritage with wildblooded bloodlines. If you relabeled it and said it wasn't wildblooded it wouldn't be any different than a normal bloodline.
Because Sylvan modifies the Fey arcana and 1st level bloodline power into a single ability.
Unless its called out as unique somewhere why is it different? My answer is it isn't because the Wildbloods are intended as archetypes modifying existing bloodlines, so it isn't different except mechanically.
Add how all the Wildblood stuff is phrased as replacing ordinary bloodline abilities and such.
And Eldritch Heritage only mentions the bloodlines, not modifications to bloodlines via archetype. Ergo since you need the archetype to modify the bloodline ability, and you don't get that from EH, you don't get the different ability.
I'd agree most of the switches are not exactly going to free Rovagug. If anything most Wildblooded powers tend to be less useful, you take them for the arcana. However I don't think they are supportable as RAW so if you do it you need to have that understanding you are house ruling.
I generally like house ruling, but I also tend to dislike trying to "sneak" things in that aren't both clearly possible and intended to be.
Worse, I don't understand peoples not wanting people to take eldritch heritage with wildblooded bloodlines.
Cuz the rules. Nothing to do with what people 'want'.
As seen by the posters who say 'I'd probably consider allowing it in a home-game, but that's not the same as the rules'.I think the Errata for Spring Attack negating Vital Strike synergy sucks, and house-rule it, but I don't conflate that with what the rules allow.
Didn't necro it already had the "answerd in FAQ tag applied" but i started a new thread on the question of gaining archetype abilities from outside sources.
Point of order 1 : If I apply Zen Archer to a monk, is he no longer a monk? Or is he a monk? If he's still a Monk, he qualifies for feats that say 'requirement monk'. If he is not a monk, then he does not qualify for feats that require monk, and he can multiclass as Monk, because Monk is not a Zen Archer.
Point of order 2 : A wildblooded archetype applies an archetype to the bloodline. Is a wildblooded bloodline no longer a bloodline? If it isn't, then a sorcerer can multiclass into a different bloodline, if it is, he can't.
Point of order 3 : If a wildblooded archetype is a bloodline, then it works with eldritch heritage (assuming it's not modified the base power beyond what the feat can grant). If this is not true, then the wildblooded archetype makes you not have a bloodline, since it is not a bloodline. Note this isn't a sorcerer archetype, it's a bloodline archetype. That means it does exactly for the bloodline what an archetype does for a fighter. It alters some of the abiliteis, but the fighter is still a fighter, and the wildblood is still a bloodline.
Them's the rules, cuz...
Mdt how are you getting that the bloodline not the class is getting archetyped?
No those are options presented in the base class in the CRB. No different than a rangers Combat Style or a clerics Domains.
I agree that the Wildblooded bloodlines probably shouldn't be an archetype, since they change a class feature that's already based on a selection if choices and not any static class features. Following that logic they would be treated as normal bloodlines and since there is very little change in power the archetype choice was either a mistake or meant to make them class only.
Read the wildblooded, they are archetypes that change only the bloodline, not the sorcerer. They are bloodline archetypes, not sorcerer archetypes.
Except the archetype rules are clear that they apply to classes not class feature.
I'd have to check but I believe at least one gunslinger archetype only changes some deeds but its not a deed archetype it's a gunslinger archetype.
Are they listed as such? I can go look but if their not then no they are options. Options like every bloodline in the APG and all them not listed under wildblooded in UM.
I checked no they aren't at least not the elemental ones. They are alternate class features. Scroll master however would be an archtype.
And before you ask no monk vows aren't archetypes either.
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Wildblooded is listed as a sorcerer archetype. The wildblooded archetype changes your selected bloodline to have alternative abilities. "Sylvan" is not a bloodline on its own, it's what you get when a wildblooded sorcerer chooses the fae bloodline.
Mdt, to build off your monk example, yes a zen archer is still a monk. Using Eldritch Heritage to gain archetype-modified abilities would be like taking the feat Stunning Fist and instead of actually gaining Stunning Fist, "trading it out" for the Flowing Monk's first level ability "Redirection" that replaces Stunning Fist.
Arguing that "a wildblooded bloodline is still a bloodline" is a facetious argument in the same way as if you were arguing that spectral hand is still a hand, you should be able to pick things up with it. Adjectives matter.
In summary, you don't actually pick sylvan, sage, etc. If you are a sorcerer you pick fae or arcane and choose an archetype(wildblooded) which changes you class ability of bloodline into Sylvan or Sage or what have you. If you disagree with this statement please explain what exactly the wildblooded archetype does then.
Now if a GM wanted to houserule otherwise in their home game I don't think there would be too many broken consequences. Even if you can take wildblooded bloodlines with Eldritch Heritage Sylvan would not work as the AC requires more class abilities than EH gives you.
Using the Wiggz method (Sylvan bloodline with Eldritch Heritage for a familiar) you should be able to get a big, powerful companion and a cute little familiar which can be upgraded later with Improved Familiar. If you're more interested in having a "pack" than being a powerful caster you might consider taking 4 levels as a Cavalier and then picking up the feat which makes your Cavalier mount based on your character level instead of your class level ("Horse Lord" I think). Then you can get your Sorcerer companion back up to full level with Boon Companion and the Robes of Arcane Heritage.
I wouldn't suggest doing this in a large or impatient group since your turn might take quite a while. Around 10th level it might be fun to dip into the Mammoth Rider PrC. Your Sorcerer companion should still end up at full power, and your Cavalier Mount can be chosen from a wider list of larger creatures. You'd have to keep taking Sorcerer levels after that though, or your other companion would cease to grow in power.
It sounds like a fun plan to me. I just wish I had more games to try out all these weird ideas.