So there aren't too many ways of building a front-line melee character who's also a competent face. In Core, which I'm most familiar with, basically it's just the paladin, or maybe an appropriate cleric build. But I don't know the non-core material too well (the Cavalier class is easily a thousand words), so I could use general advice, and specific suggestions too. Everything is welcome, provided you please be civilized.
Which leads to the concept: A noble warrior, a guy who's refined, educated, capable of courtly intrigues and diplomacy, yet reliable in melee, most probably an armored swordsman. In terms of the character's race and personality, I have three directions I could go, and I haven't made up my mind. The first, and my favorite, is an elf; the other two would be humans I guess (though I'm open to suggestions):
- a high elf-lord: more Elrond than Legolas
- medieval ideal of lordship: mature, wise, commanding presence
- rich man's son: irresponsible escapee from the noble life
These have implications for the build: An elf-lord needs at least a little arcane magic and has to work around difficult racial attributes. The middle concept, the true lord of men, is probably easier because he's a human who doesn't have to be magical. The third is easiest, I imagine, because you can build in flaws as part of the concept (for instance, dumping wis).
A couple of factors are non-negotiable:
- Level 9
- Neutral or Good alignment
- ability scores are rolled already (see below)
- any general-purpose Paizo rulebook is permitted
- 3.5 feats, pending case-by-case GM approval
- starting wealth or magic items might be low; dunno yet
We've got two options for sets of ability scores (I'm fairly certain we go with the second but just for completeness); note I don't have to assign them in order:
15, 15, 15, 13, 12, 11 <-- or --> 17, 17, 16, 15, 11, 8
In addition, the GM's house rule is that I can add +1 to any one ability score at character creation.
To give you an idea of the style of play, we're not really optimizers, but that said, the GM tends to use 20 as the default skill DC, and will absolutely throw level-appropriate encounters at us from the Bestiaries. So the build does have to work well, just not truly optimally.
So for the elf-lord I had the idea of playing a melee-capable bard, or else a magus with social skills somehow (dip?). I've read that melee bards aren't front-line fighters, but maybe for our non-optimizer table a relatively optimized elf bard melee build would be adequate for the purpose. For the other two, Cavalier is obviously jumping out at me. In any case, I could use some help choosing between the three concepts in terms of feasibility.
There is the battle hearld prestige class in the advanced players guide but have never seen one in play I think it has flavor of a lord. Althuogh are those stats set in order?
Althuogh are those stats set in order?
No, I can assign them in any order, very fortunately! Original post will be edited to reflect this.
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You could try the Arcane Duelist archetype for the elf lord - it adds a bit more melee punch, including an arcane bonded weapon, and once you level up from 9 to 10 you'll get medium armour. They lose some of the bard's skill abilities but still have plenty of skill points.
Traits can give the Magus Diplomacy as a class trait. Chivalrous might also be helpful.
it might be because I just finished statting one up, but..
17, 17, 16, 15, 11, 8
this screams paladin to me. 17+1 str, 17 cha, dump int or wis.
dump int or wis.
Either one sort of puts a damper on the whole "mature and wise counsel" thing.
There ARE ways to build a front-line melee character who's also a competent face, ala the archetypal wise medieval lord. Just not easily with what your GM has given you.
Doing so requires either a more advanced point buy, or very lucky rolls. Those guys DID exist, but they are famous because they were men of rare quality. Just like a character with very lucky rolls.
Bard
How do you build a classic medieval lord? With one word: Cavalier.
Human
Str: 17 (+1 @ lvl 4)
Dex: 15
Con: 17 (+1 @ lvl 8)
Int: 8 ( +2 headband)
Wis: 16
Cha: 11 (+2 human, +1 @ lvl 1)
Final stats: 18, 15, 18, 10, 16, 14. Switch con and dex for lighter armor.
How do you build a classic medieval lord? With one word: Cavalier.
I completely agree with this.
If this were for an oriental game, I'd say samurai, and if 3PP products were allowed, I'd say Kuge (samurai archetype) and possibly the Bugyo prestige class - both from Rite Publishing Way of the Samurai for the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG). Of course both the kuge and the bugyo were designed specifically to fit Japanese noble lord as a concept, more than what the base class offers.
Both these options have some martial front line skills, and definitely strong face skills without being 'magicky' like a bard.
It might even be worth it to recalibrate these archetype/prestige class builds to be not oriental, and refluffed for a standard Euro-styled campaign.
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Pathfinder Gazetteer 3.5: Class Skills:
Class Abilities: Numerous martial academies around
the Inner Sea region teach weapon skill, tactics, diplomacy,
and other tools useful for war. Fighters who attend these
schools may choose to take additional class skills. Taking
this option replaces the bonus feat gained upon taking the
first level of fighter.
A fighter trained at a famous war college or
fighting school gains the following class skills (in addition
to the normal fighter class skills): Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge
(nobility) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
I would personally also include Knowledge (history) to make up for the fact that both Knowledge (Architecture) Knowledge (Royalty) and Gather in formation are no longer skills.
Sorry for not saying so sooner (I'm afraid the internet didn't like me for a couple of days) but I wanted to thank you all for your input. Lots of good ideas here!
Unfortunately the player of our charismatic cleric was sort of making noises like he didn't want a second Face to be horning in on his shtick, so I'm afraid I had to scrap the concept.
But! I do plan on coming back to this lordly warrior concept someday, and now I have the appropriate build ideas for when it comes 'round.
So again, thanks very much! The Pathfinder community doesn't disappoint!