Is this monster appropriate for CR 9?


Advice


"INSERT UNDEAD SNAKE MONSTER NAME HERE"
CE Large undead animal
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft, scent; Perception +13
Defense
AC 23, touch 12, flat-footed 20 (+3 Dex, +11 natural, –1 size)
hp 119 (14d8+56); fast healing 5 Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +12 DR 5/magic and silver
Immune Undead traits
Offense
Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft., swim 30 ft.
Special Channel negative energy (3d6, Will DC 17 to half)/ 7 day
Melee bite +17 (2d6+9 plus poison); Constrict (2d6+9)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Spell-like abilities
Fear 1/day (DC 18)
Animate dead 3/ day
Statistics
Str 22, Dex 16, Con -, Int -, Wis 17, Cha 18
Base Atk +10; CMB +17; CMD 30 (can’t be tripped)
Feats Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Stealth), Weapon Focus (bite), Improved natural armor, Improved natural attack (bite), Snatch
Skills Acrobatics +10 (+6 jump), Climb +14, Perception +13,Stealth +11, Swim +14;
Racial Modifiers Acrobatics+8, +4 Perception, +4 Stealth

Special Abilities
Poison (Ex) Bite—injury; save Fort DC 19; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d3 Con; cure 2 consecutive saves.

Lifesense (Su) This monster notices and locates living creatures within 60 feet, just as if it possessed the blindsight ability.

Channel Negative Energy (Su) As a standard action, this monster can channel negative energy in a 30-foot burst as a 6th-level evil cleric. This ability requires no divine focus. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Life-Draining Coils (Su) Every time a creature takes constriction damage from constriction this monster gains 5 hit points.

Liberty's Edge

The poison is very nasty, but probably not off the scale. If not 9, maybe 10...but almost everything else is right on the money, so...meh. 9 or 10.


As a matter of principle, I dislike poison in undead creatures. Maybe give it channel smite as a bonus feat instead?


I modified the poison a bit:

Poison (Ex) Bite—injury; save Fort DC 17; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Con; cure 1 save.

Pupsocket, I've grown with games like Heroes of might and magic, where the undead and poison walk hand in hand. Channel smite is a cool idea though. =)

Liberty's Edge

Jonne Karila wrote:

I modified the poison a bit:

Poison (Ex) Bite—injury; save Fort DC 17; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Con; cure 1 save.

Pupsocket, I've grown with games like Heroes of might and magic, where the undead and poison walk hand in hand. Channel smite is a cool idea though. =)

Good job...definitely a great fit with that. Still nasty...but then, it should be. The DC is based on Cha? That would still be 19...unless you dropped the Cha a little.


Hmm, you might be interested in the Hollow Serpent from book 6 of Serpent's skull. It's CR 16, but there's a lesser version that's a CR 6. You could probably just Advance the CR 6 one and get pretty close to what you're looking for.

Sczarni

It seems fine, but I don't get the poison and channel energy ideas. The undead usually don't have those abilities.

You could add disease instead of poison maybe?

Liberty's Edge

Malag wrote:

It seems fine, but I don't get the poison and channel energy ideas. The undead usually don't have those abilities.

You could add disease instead of poison maybe?

Is there a point to recreating the wheel? I see no reason why poison wouldn't be as reasonable as anything else...and if it's tied to the negative energy plane, like so many undead are...I think it's a pretty interesting creature. I would love to see the fluff on it.


Both the channel and poison DCs would be Charisma-based for an undead, making the DCs for both 21.

(10 + 1/2 HD + Cha mod)
10 + 7 + 4 = 21

Looks like you've sort of fallen into a trap of wanting the hit points to be right on the money for the target DC, so jacked up the Charisma to get the bonus hp, but it's really affecting your DCs. Your primary and secondary are both off the charts unless you can find some way to justify simply busting those numbers.

Doesn't matter if this is just for the table. You can just nerf the DCs. But if you ever publish this, you will have people taking your math apart, so it's something to keep in mind.

The real trick to monster-making is balance - knowing when it is okay for something to be a bit high so long as you lower something else - but it comes more from instinct and experience. You have to learn to let go of some part of the thing sometimes, even if you are in love with it. You have to tell yourself it is okay if I find another way of getting to what I want, or that it is okay that the thing does not last for twenty rounds of combat. You have to love your monsters without being IN LOVE with them. If you are, it's harder to allow for balance.

Sczarni

@EldonG
Hey, I just said it's not usual. Poison requires for creature to be alive mostly but there are creatures which have poison and they aren't alive, such as construct snakes, cant remember their names. Having disease would be more natural.

@OP
I would also add some small Intelligence to snake. You need Int if you wish to add those feats.

If it can animate dead also it might also be able to command them.

Liberty's Edge

Malag wrote:

@EldonG

Hey, I just said it's not usual. Poison requires for creature to be alive mostly but there are creatures which have poison and they aren't alive, such as construct snakes, cant remember their names. Having disease would be more natural.

@OP
I would also add some small Intelligence to snake. You need Int if you wish to add those feats.

If it can animate dead also it might also be able to command them.

Yeah, I caught the point. I prefer a bit unusual over what would be expected every time. Natural? What's natural about dead things moving about in the first place? :p


Bruunwald and others, this is just for my friends and me, so the math isn't that important. I just want the encounter to be tough for my PCs but not impossible (4 x lvl 6 PC's). Mplindustries, thanks for the tip!

Liberty's Edge

Bruunwald wrote:

Both the channel and poison DCs would be Charisma-based for an undead, making the DCs for both 21.

(10 + 1/2 HD + Cha mod)
10 + 7 + 4 = 21

Looks like you've sort of fallen into a trap of wanting the hit points to be right on the money for the target DC, so jacked up the Charisma to get the bonus hp, but it's really affecting your DCs. Your primary and secondary are both off the charts unless you can find some way to justify simply busting those numbers.

Doesn't matter if this is just for the table. You can just nerf the DCs. But if you ever publish this, you will have people taking your math apart, so it's something to keep in mind.

The real trick to monster-making is balance - knowing when it is okay for something to be a bit high so long as you lower something else - but it comes more from instinct and experience. You have to learn to let go of some part of the thing sometimes, even if you are in love with it. You have to tell yourself it is okay if I find another way of getting to what I want, or that it is okay that the thing does not last for twenty rounds of combat. You have to love your monsters without being IN LOVE with them. If you are, it's harder to allow for balance.

You're right - 21...I just assumed it was calculated right the first time...and then noticed it had been lowered.


mplindustries wrote:
Hmm, you might be interested in the Hollow Serpent from book 6 of Serpent's skull. It's CR 16, but there's a lesser version that's a CR 6. You could probably just Advance the CR 6 one and get pretty close to what you're looking for.

Luckily, this is also reprinted in Bestiary 3. Personally, I dig the undead having poison. I also blame video games and Warhammer for me associating poison with undeath and plague, but I prefer it.


I just think the Hollow Serpent is uncannily similar--it has lifesense and a negative energy constrict and all. They're not poisonous, but I also like the idea of an undead snake with poison, so you could always just add a poison, probably for +1 CR or so.

Liberty's Edge

Odraude wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Hmm, you might be interested in the Hollow Serpent from book 6 of Serpent's skull. It's CR 16, but there's a lesser version that's a CR 6. You could probably just Advance the CR 6 one and get pretty close to what you're looking for.
Luckily, this is also reprinted in Bestiary 3. Personally, I dig the undead having poison. I also blame video games and Warhammer for me associating poison with undeath and plague, but I prefer it.

The one in the B3 doesn't mention a lesser version...and it's waaaaay bad for lvl 9. ;)

Let me take a look...ugh...not online, either.

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