One of my players wants to see a femme fatale in our game. I have a whole series of questions involving the following character:
Sasha Ivliskova, adapted from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Sorcerer 6 (shadow bloodline), originally human but now a vampire (Moroi).
Str 16
Dex 18
Con 0
Int 15
Wis 14
Cha 26
I gave her the following feats: Eschew Materials, Combat Casting, Tenebrous Spell, Umbral Spell, Shadow Grasp.
I gave her the following spells:
0 Resistance, Detect Magic, Read Magic (for various scrolls), Bleed, Flare, Ray of Frost, Mage Hand
1 Mage Armor, Shield, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shocking Grasp, Burning Hands
2 Blur, Darkness, Darkvision, Web
3 Fireball
She has at this point a Headband of Charisma +4, with 7,500gp left.
The concept I was going for is to paralyze or prevent the targets from moving much, then closing in for touch attacks (kissing, but using Shocking Grasp, level drain etc just to be sadistic). Then toss in a fireball or some nasty area effect damage to mop up. Remember, she IS a villain, and as such I am trying to be wholly evil in her construction.
Question 1: What I want to know, is there a better spell selection?
Question 2: What skills should I take?
Question 3: Can I combine various attacks from shadow bloodline sorcerer spells, and vampiric abilities?
Question 4: She's supposed to be CR7 by her lonesome, did I get that correct by giving her 6 levels of Sorcerer?
As I look at this I'm not sure you're not looking at a CR 8? If Vampire is the base creature, it might be +2 for the Vampire Template, and then +6 because the spells are "key" class levels that enhance her own natural "magic." Even though most of the vampire abilities are supernatural abilities, many of them mimic spells. If that's the case I see a CR 8 creature. If it's not the case then the NPC is a "special" NPC and the class levels only count as +1 per 2. If that's the case you're only looking at a 5 (+2 Vampire +3 sorcerer levels). Also, I'd think about replacing fireball with Reckless Infatuation, or Suggestion. Those seem much more like a spell a FF would use.
Skills? I'd go heavy Diplomacy, and Intimidate, she might even be able to, with good rolls, convince the PCs that she's a victim of other evil men, and they need to protect her from them. Obviously as an undead sorcerer she'd want some Knowledge Arcana, and Spellcraft, maybe even a couple ranks in UMD.
I think it's rather a direct approach, for a femme fatale. The point of a FF is to lure people to their doom with feminine wiles, not to blast them to cinders with fireballs while wearing exciting magical lingerie...
Well, I looked at the bloodlines where enchantment spells were primary, and all of them were too high level to be of much use. All the decent spells were too potent, like 3rd, 4th, 5th. If you can come up with a better idea, please let me know.
As I look at this I'm not sure you're not looking at a CR 8? If Vampire is the base creature, it might be +2 for the Vampire Template, and then +6 because the spells are "key" class levels that enhance her own natural "magic." Even though most of the vampire abilities are supernatural abilities, many of them mimic spells. If that's the case I see a CR 8 creature. If it's not the case then the NPC is a "special" NPC and the class levels only count as +1 per 2. If that's the case you're only looking at a 5 (+2 Vampire +3 sorcerer levels). Also, I'd think about replacing fireball with Reckless Infatuation, or Suggestion. Those seem much more like a spell a FF would use.
Skills? I'd go heavy Diplomacy, and Intimidate, she might even be able to, with good rolls, convince the PCs that she's a victim of other evil men, and they need to protect her from them. Obviously as an undead sorcerer she'd want some Knowledge Arcana, and Spellcraft, maybe even a couple ranks in UMD.
Well, I looked at the NPC rules in the core book, and in the GM's book. It stated that all of them were -1 CR less than their actual level, if all of those levels were PC classes. So, when I added the vampire template, it increased the CR to +1. That was the logic. Did I get it wrong?
As for skills, how would a die roll convince the players that she's on the up and up? I don't get it. Dice are great for influencing NPC's, but they do all of squat for players. I did max out her Bluff rating already, so as to ensure they couldn't detect her lying.
why is reckless infatuation labeled as being peripheral? It's published by their company. I really like the spell though. Will replace Fireball.
Reckless Infatuation is Paizo Peripheral. That is to say, it's from Paizo, but not from the core rulebook.
The CR is kind of a wacky thing with NPCs anyway, but my interpretation of a Vampire is that they are a monster. So I looked at the Bestiary rules for Monster Advancement. In that case, if you consider her a monster with "Spell" as her identified roll, then the 6 sorcerer levels stack on that. I have to admit I'm a bit hazy on the CR for "normal" NPCs as I make them all in Hero Lab, and it takes care of the CR for me.
As for the dice influencing the PCs, I was thinking of a roleplay situation where the FF is using her diplomacy to make the PCs friendly towards her. If she can change their initial attitude towards her to friendly, or even helpful, they'd be inclined to give her aid. I might also, if she's successfully changed their attitude to friendly or helpful, give her a bit of a circumstance bonus on her Bluff check to convince them that she needs their aid. If she can win their hearts through magic and skill checks, then she'll be "in their hip pocket," as the expression goes, and she can get up nice and close and personal. Maybe even separate somebody from the group, of an evening, and suck the blood right out of them. :)
Also, by the looks of it you have given the NPC wealth as a PC. This is also a CR+1 (negating the -1 Heroic PC class if you take that route).
So you are looking at more of a CR of 8 (6-1+1+2) if ignoring the synergy of specialization as is the case in the Bestiary example with the CR 9 version of the lvl 8 Sor vampire (with NPC wealth).
Edit: As far as something helpful to add into consideration for the build. I might look into Lover's Vengeance depending on if the character interact with the NPC before she reveals herself as a villian. As sorcerer 6, the effect will last for 6 rounds if not dispelled. Though there is an additional caveat that you will have to work in to make use of it.
As for the dice influencing the PCs, I was thinking of a roleplay situation where the FF is using her diplomacy to make the PCs friendly towards her. If she can change their initial attitude towards her to friendly, or even helpful, they'd be inclined to give her aid. I might also, if she's successfully changed their attitude to friendly or helpful, give her a bit of a circumstance bonus on her Bluff check to convince them that she needs their aid. If she can win their hearts through magic and skill checks, then she'll be "in their hip pocket," as the expression goes, and she can get up nice and close and personal. Maybe even separate somebody from the group, of an evening, and suck the blood right out of them. :)
Honestly, I don't know how CR works in Pathfinder. I knew in 3.5, but in PF the devil is in the details. I just eyeballed it.
That's the thing you don't get: No NPC can change the initial attitude of PC's via dice. The DM can try to word the encounter as if it was friendly, but that's about it. PC's are a notoriously suspicious bunch, doncha know.
So aside from maxing out Bluff so they can't Sense Motive on her to detect lying, that's the best I can think of. Sure, she could try to influence NPC's to talk her up to the PC's, but that's all I can do with dice.
Also, by the looks of it you have given the NPC wealth as a PC. This is also a CR+1 (negating the -1 Heroic PC class if you take that route).
So you are looking at more of a CR of 8 (6-1+1+2) if ignoring the synergy of specialization as is the case in the Bestiary example with the CR 9 version of the lvl 8 Sor vampire (with NPC wealth).
Near as I can figure, the wealth was for CR7, as a heroic NPC.
Normally, the CR of any NPC is precisely one less than their PC class, with NPC classes taking a -2 instead. So, making this one a level 6 PC means it is CR5. This calculation was based on the Gamemastery Guide's examples. However, I added the Vampire template, upping the CR by 2, for a total of 7. I am giving her 7th level NPC wealth, from what I understand, is 23,500gp.
Do I have that right? And what do you think of the build?
Near as I can figure, the wealth was for CR7, as a heroic NPC.
Normally, the CR of any NPC is precisely one less than their PC class, with NPC classes taking a -2 instead. So, making this one a level 6 PC means it is CR5. This calculation was based on the Gamemastery Guide's examples. However, I added the Vampire template, upping the CR by 2, for a total of 7. I am giving her 7th level NPC wealth, from what I understand, is 23,500gp.
Do I have that right? And what do you think of the build?
I was looking at Step 6 of creating NPCs NPCs. It is rated for Medium progression, but depending on the gear, having over the amounts listed aren't going to always make things harder (especially if some items are just enver used or not benefical and just for flavor).
As far as the build (which I am sorry that I did not post in concern to your intial posting), I think the choices are fairly solid.
Q1: I would presonally add some enchantment (or possibly illusion as well) spells to fit the theme. As far as combat, the spells are very good choices.
Q2: Diplomacy, Bluff, or intimidate (or any combination) would help. Of course staples such as Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft.
Q3: I'd say yes. The energy drain effect from the vampire is just whenever they hit with a slam attack. You could rule that the effect would also trigger when using Shadowstrike bloodline power (though it is a touch attack which would make it even more dangerous than normal). But since it only effects a creature 1/rd and she is a caster, I would just not overuse the combo during combat.
Q4: My take on it in post above. As far as sorcerer + vampire NPC goes alone, I think you are spot on for the CR. The equipment would be the only issue, but as I said, may or may not make a significant difference.
If a DM moves to using dice rolls to force "friendly" character action, the players will immediately know something is up.
The local bartender doesn't use Diplomacy checks to chisel an extra copper out of them as a tip.
No, she needs to actually do them favors, and be a real ally. That is the only way for the betrayal angle to work.
I was thinking Diplomacy for interacting with other NPCs, intimadate for actual combat, and bluff (used with a dice generator) for when a PC wants to use Sense Motive out of the blue.
For story and "secret rolls" (random encounters, enemies using stealth for an ambush, etc.), I tend to use a generator. All other rolls I let roll in front of the group.
Hmmm. Well, I found the chart for NPC wealth, and you guys are right, I overdid it. She SHOULD have 4,650gp total, not the 23,500gp total!
Okay, then I am gonna just give her a +2 headband (or bra) of Charisma. She was supposed to have been locked up, as she rebelled against Strahd, but I do want her to have some fangs. Maybe scrolls for the rest. I want her to have gotten out, and to be manipulating the PC's into attacking Strahd so she can be free.
Now, what do you think of the feat selection? I was thinking on using Shadow Grasp with the area effect spells like Darkness and Web. She has 2 vampire spawn minions to work with.
Right now, she has Bluff, Stealth, Disguise, Arcana maxed, and 3 in Acrobatics and Spellcraft. How should I change that? I thought Disguise would help her goals, as would Bluff.
Sasha Ivliskova, adapted from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Sorcerer 6 (shadow bloodline), originally human but now a vampire (Moroi).
Str 16
Dex 18
Con 0
Int 15
Wis 14
Cha 24
I gave her the following feats: Eschew Materials, Combat Casting, Tenebrous Spell, Umbral Spell, Shadow Grasp.
I gave her the following spells:
0 Resistance, Detect Magic, Read Magic (for various scrolls), Bleed, Flare, Ray of Frost, Mage Hand
1 Mage Armor, Shield, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch
2 Darkness, Darkvision, Web
3 Reckless Infatuation
She has at this point a Headband of Charisma +2, with 650gp left. Right now, she has Bluff, Stealth, Disguise, Arcana maxed, and 3 in Acrobatics and Spellcraft.
The concept I was going for is to paralyze or prevent the targets from moving much, then closing in for touch attacks (kissing, but using Shocking Grasp, level drain etc just to be sadistic). Then toss in a fireball or some nasty area effect damage to mop up. Remember, she IS a villain, and as such I am trying to be wholly evil in her construction.
I'm thinking there might be better uses for feats than those 3 shadow metamagic feats....
That's the thing you don't get: No NPC can change the initial attitude of PC's via dice. The DM can try to word the encounter as if it was friendly, but that's about it. PC's are a notoriously suspicious bunch, doncha know.
Ummmm, frick! I've read the Diplomacy skill probably a hundred or more times and never really took the time to read the line : "the initial attitudes of nonplayer characters." My bad on that. I've actually been running it for years where NPCs influenced the PCs, just the same way. Sitting where you're sitting that sounds impossible, but I make a pretty big deal in my games about separating what a player thinks and knows and what a character thinks and knows. So if an NPC made a successful check (which, I now know, is really a direct contradiction of the RAW) I'd tell the PC that they felt emotionally inclined not only to believe the NPC, but also felt like they should probably give them the information they wanted, and or help them. Obviously I'll have to point out my flaw at our next session and talk about how to move forward. Thanks for making me re-read the rules with the correct perspective. :)
Now, as to your Femme Fatale and her feats, I'm thinking maybe start with Skill Focus (Bluff), add Deceitful and maybe Voice of the Sibyl. Those will all help with those Bluff checks she's no doubt going to need to make. Otherwise another option that might help her is Uncanny Concentration.
Dude, that's the thing. You can't dictate to the players how they FEEL. You just violated the cardinal rule of GMing, that of repeatedly taking over their characters. I can bet that there was a lot of frustration on their parts over the years! Bluff is not mind control, nor is Diplomacy. That's why Charm Person and the like are so feared by players, and why most of them do everything they can to avoid such things like the Plague itself! I tell my players that while Fortitude saves are easily the most frequent, and Reflex helps vs traps, dragon breath etc, Will saves are the worst to fail though they may be the rarest induced of all saving throws.
As for me, you should know that getting people to look at things from a wholly different and wider perspective is kinda what I DO for a living. I introduced my mother and stepfather when I was barely old enough to walk and talk. I *fix* people, just doin' my job.
Well, I'm thinking that I might want to use her feats to either give her more spells somehow, or perhaps make her more resistant to positive energy (Iron Will or Positive Energy Resistance to help vs turn checks).
Da funny thing is, Sasha really DOES hate Strahd, and wants him dead for what he did to her, not just vamping her out but also making her his slave, AND abandoning her after growing tired of her presence. So while she has to obey him, she sets him up for getting wiped out by alternating pestering and luring the PC's to his door. That's the plan, anyway. And if she survives, she'll remember that she owes the PC's a solid, so that's a handy plot device for later.
I feel like, as a FF, she needs more... "persuasion" Enchantment spells. Murderous command, charm person, etc, etc. Maybe some memory lapse.
That fireball is a given, though.
Replaced a spell.
Sasha Ivliskova, adapted from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Sorcerer 6 (shadow bloodline), originally human but now a vampire (Moroi).
Str 16
Dex 18
Con 0
Int 15
Wis 14
Cha 24
I gave her the following feats: Eschew Materials, Combat Casting, Tenebrous Spell, Umbral Spell, Shadow Grasp.
I gave her the following spells:
0 Resistance, Detect Magic, Read Magic (for various scrolls), Bleed, Flare, Ray of Frost, Mage Hand
1 Mage Armor, Shield, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch
2 Darkness, Darkvision, Unnatural Lust
3 Reckless Infatuation
She has at this point a Headband of Charisma +2, with 650gp left. Right now, she has Bluff, Stealth, Disguise, Arcana maxed, and 3 in Acrobatics and Spellcraft.
The concept I was going for is to paralyze or prevent the targets from moving much, then closing in for touch attacks (kissing, but using Shocking Grasp, level drain etc just to be sadistic). Then toss in a fireball or some nasty area effect damage to mop up. Remember, she IS a villain, and as such I am trying to be wholly evil in her construction.