Monk + Synthesist...


Rules Questions


How many unarmed strike attacks does a Monk 1 / Synthesist 9, using Biped form with Limbs evolution purchased twice have (results in having 6 arms and 6 hands) when not using FoB, but taking T.W.F as a feat which then is replaced with Multiweapon Fighting?

Thanks in advance,

Dan.

Scarab Sages

Technically, unarmed strike is not tied to specific body parts. You can attack with feet, knees, elbows, head butts, etc.

The presence of an extended list of attack options does not normally increase the number of unarmed strikes available.

Given this, I would be disinclined to grant additional unarmed attacks to a synthesist. If that option is desired, spend the points on evolutions to add claws.


It is a GMs call basically.

The rules themselves doesn't provide for using more than a single off-hand weapon.

Some creatures get more attacks due to having more arms, but there is no general rules to support it.
Based on such creatures however, it might be a reasonable ruling to allow this for the eidolon/synthesist.

If allowed, your synthe-monk would have 7 unarmed strike attacks (2 primary due to bab, and 5 offhand attacks). With MWF the attack sequence is -2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-7.


Cpt.Caine wrote:

How many unarmed strike attacks does a Monk 1 / Synthesist 9, using Biped form with Limbs evolution purchased twice have (results in having 6 arms and 6 hands) when not using FoB, but taking T.W.F as a feat which then is replaced with Multiweapon Fighting?

Thanks in advance,

Dan.

I don't think that'd work. IIRC, one of the caveats for being a synthesist is that when your eidolon is active, you can either do actions as yourself (unarmed strike, cast a spell) or as the eidolon (natural attacks) but not a mix of the two.


There is another thread about TWF with unarmed strikes and whether that is even legal. This is taking that thread to the next level. I believe that TWF with unarmed attacks is allowed and as such MWF with loads of fists are allowed. So you get loads of attacks ( -2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-7. ) but what damage do these unarmed strikes do? Monk damage? or Eidolon medium unarmed strike damage?

When designing a Synthesist, close consultation with your GM is a requirement. Most GMs simply disallow the Synthesist due to all the headaches it brings. So the real answer is: depends on your GM.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

A 1mnk/9smn would have 5 attacks max regardless of how many natural attack options you give to the eidolon from evolutions. Click here for chart.

As a Synthesist, you use your eidolon's BAB and limit of natural attacks.

"The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks."

Click here for reference.

Depending on the GM, you may be allowed the additional attack from having TWF giving you 6 attacks. This all depends on the GM.


Unarmed strikes are not natural attacks. Which sounds really weird but it is the only conclusion that makes sense.

If each of those hands were wielding a weapon, there would be 7 weapon attacks. No questions asked. I find it very difficult to believe that MWF with unarmed strikes would work any differently. Treat each fist as a weapon.

Natural attacks include things like claws, bites, tentacles, wing slaps, tail slaps, slams etc. etc. And I believe there is a rule that if a creature lacks a natural attack they can still use unarmed strikes...but if unarmed strikes are natural attacks then...*head implodes*

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Yes, but a eidolon using weapons counts those weapon attacks against it's natural attack limit. I'd assume the same would apply to the synthesist while fused.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Donald Robinson wrote:
Yes, but a eidolon using weapons counts those weapon attacks against it's natural attack limit. I'd assume the same would apply to the synthesist while fused.

No, the unarmed strikes can be counted as weapon attacks that do not count against the natural attack limit. If you are going for maximum attacks, you would want to have at least one pair of limbs that has no attacks associated with it (in order to avoid losing natural attacks to the unarmed strike). The monk level gives you Improved Unarmed Strike, and you have taken Two Weapon Fighting as well. Because you have only one level of monk, flurrying would only give you a total of two attacks, so you would use your Two Weapon Fighting feat instead. That gives you two unarmed strike attacks at -2 and two more unarmed strikes at -7 (all with full strength bonus added to damage), along with all 5 of your natural attacks at -2 (with only half strength bonus added to damage). At 10th character level, you will be missing a lot unless you have a decent Amulet of Mighty Fists -- and even then you would probably do more damage if you focus on improving your natural attacks rather than gaining extra Improved Unarmed Strike attacks.


You wouldn't get additional unarmed strikes for more arms. BUT, you can totally TWF with unarmed and then do all natural attacks as 2ndary natural attacks, for a lot of attacks. Obviously best with Quad form for pounce.

NOTE: Flurry of Blows specifically does not allow this... but normal TWF has no such restriction. So ditch the FoB for Master of Many Styles and get the TWF feats normally. Or ditch Monk entirely and use Unarmed or Brawler fighter archetype. In either case, go mostly Synth with only a 1-2 level dip in the monk or fighter class.


Maybe a level or two of maneuver master if you want to "spit blinding poison into their eyes" with dirty trick. Or something similarly flavourful depending on your synthesist shape.


With Multi-weapon fighting, you get all your BAB attacks + 1 attack for every arm you have - 1.


And then you can't use any of those hands off 2ndary natural attacks with claws or whatever.

Seems like a bad trade to me.


You can stick claws on your feet (eidolons only); but Unarmed Strike does have one advantage. If you choose to go the Kali synthesist build, with 8+ arm, you don't have to buy 8+ weapons; you can just get an Amulet of Fists and be done with it.

Grand Lodge

Double Slice. Full strength to off-hand attacks.

Hey, it's a limb-based, but not limb-based weapon, for whatever is more beneficial.

Nab that Multiweapon Fighting, and get your PC 9 attacks.


Your Bab would be at +7/+2 for iteratives. You have 6 arms so, with multiweapon fighting, you can get up to 5 off-hand attacks. With your 2 normal iteratives, that's a total of 7 unarmed strikes as a full-round action. If you have natural attacks not associated with the arms (ie. talons, bite, til, etc) you can add those in as secondary as well.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

And then you can't use any of those hands off 2ndary natural attacks with claws or whatever.

Seems like a bad trade to me.

Higher damage dice + full str bonus as a monk, rather than claw attacks at -7 with only half str to damage. Seems like a great trade-off to me.

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