Regarding Reach Cleric (PFS)

[Sage Maduin]

I read the reach cleric guide on here and loved the character concept.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p68o?New-Class-Guide-Reach-Cleric

In practice (my limited PFS experience) I have not been able to get it to work very effectively. Using a reach weapon has been a bit useful on multiple occasions to get a hit in when playing with several melee characters, but I have not successfully positioned myself one time to get a single AoO, which is supposed to be a big part of the concept.

This has been for a few reasons:
-Small rooms making positioning difficult
-Other melee-focused characters able to take the attention of monsters
-Occasional newbie errors on my part, such as today not realizing that charging through my threatened square prevents a monster from taking my AoO

In today's game, I rolled incredible Initiatives...consistently 23 and 24 - so I had the freedom to try to get in the right position to set it up. However, other melee characters still would move after me but before the monsters and ultimately the monsters either wouldn't approach me or something else would have happened to block an AoO. It wasn't really that other players were unknowingly cramping my style - it just didn't make sense for them to delay an action just to hopefully get monsters to try to take a swing at me for a quick stab or two from my spear.

So I have finished my 3 modules as level 1 so this is my last chance to make changes to my character. Should I scrap the reach concept, at least in regards to stats and feats, and go full caster instead? I could still go down the Sacred Summoning path and just not prioritize trying to get AoO's and the Acrobatics skill and such. Can anyone speak from experience?

Since I'll only ever get up to level 11 or 12 anyway as opposed to where a full caster really shines up in the high teens and such, perhaps having the OPTION of trying to set up AoO's is still worthwhile even if it doesn't always pan out. I'm not sure what to think.

[rangerjeff]

Well, in PFS you should have at least 1650 wealth and 6 prestige points after 3 scenarios.

Let's say you followed the guide, you may have a character that looks like this

human cleric of desna
Domains Travel and Freedom

AC 18 (12 touch, 16 flat)
hp 12
attack +5 (1d8+6) longspear
initiative +6

STR 18 (+1 at 8 and 12)
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 13 (+1 at 4, +2 by item by 9th level)
CHA 7

Fort 6 / Ref 3 / Will 4

speed 30', 40' with Longstrider

Feats Combat Reflexes and Improved Initiative
Traits Tomb Raider (Osirion), Rice Runner (regional)
Skills Acro 1 rank +4, Perception 1 rank +6

domain abilities
Agile Feet free action to ignore difficult terrain for 1 round, 4 rounds/day
Liberty's Blessing standard action touch to grant reroll vs ongoing spell or effect, or as a buff that lasts 1 minute, 4 times/day

Spells:
Longstrider (domain)
Bless
Protection from Evil

Favored Class bonus into hp

350 gp mwk breastplate
2pp (or 395 gp) mwk darkwood longspear
2pp wand of clw
1000gp cloak of resistance +1
2pp scroll of lots of possibly useful stuff like comprehend languages

***************

If your character looks much like that, and you don't think it's been performing how you'd like it, then yeah, pick another path. But if your character is very different from this, then it may be your build.

I've seen plenty of reach weapon characters do very well in PFS. Having access to enlarge helps, so you may have taken Strength domain and gone with Cayden Cailean or Lamashtu and gotten a wand of enlarge person for 2pp.

Of course, though you say it isn't, it may be that your fellow party members weren't coordinating properly to take full advantage of your character. Experienced players know, it's better to wait and ready a full attack than it is to charge and receive a full attack. Even backing out of a cramped room if necessary.

Or it may be the scenarios you've played. There are some with particularly small encounter spaces (like 3x4 with obstacles) but most scenarios at least feature a mix, and certainly average only a little on the cramped side.

[Majuba]

Sage Marion wrote:

newbie errors on my part, such as today not realizing that charging through my threatened square prevents a monster from taking my AoO

If you mean that movement from charging does not provoke AoOs, that is not correct.. It is a somewhat common misconception because the 3.X and PF combat tables list Charge as "Attack of Opportunity: No". But that is referring to the act itself, not the movement involved. I imagine it is included because as a rash thing to do, it might seem like it provides an opening.

Charge movement provokes AoOs.

[Pupsocket]

rangerjeff wrote:

Of course, though you say it isn't, it may be that your fellow party members weren't coordinating properly to take full advantage of your character. Experienced players know, it's better to wait and ready a full attack than it is to charge and receive a full attack. Even backing out of a cramped room if necessary.

Depends on the level. Combat at level 1 is almost all Rocket Launcher Tag, and nobody has multiple attacks.

[Sage Maduin]

This has been very helpful, and I would love to get even more feedback.

Regarding my build - it does fairly closely match what was posted. I'm pretty confident the differences I have would primarily just be flavor. And really the issues I've been having with the build have been tactical.

So it sounds like some of the issues may have been DM error also. And it also sounds like it might get better as we get to higher levels and other PCs will behave a little differently. I'm at work right now so I'll go over this a little more closely later.

[Magda Luckbender]

Quote:

This has been for a few reasons:

-Small rooms making positioning difficult
-Other melee-focused characters able to take the attention of monsters
-Occasional newbie errors on my part, such as today not realizing that charging through my threatened square prevents a monster from taking my AoO

I have played a Reach Cleric for few dozen sessions. I had the same sort of trouble, at first. I persisted, and learned how to make it work. It works, and very well at that.

Here's my post of tips and tricks to get more AoOs

1. Small rooms can give you MORE AoOs, if you can get the proper pinch point.
2. See my post, above, for how I handle other martial characters.
3. As Majuba pointed out, that's a GM error. The charge attack is immune to AoOs, but the movement leading up to the charge attack is not.