Venture-Agent, Illinois—Kakankee
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I am thinking of creating a Sorcerer with the undead bloodline with the intent on using, creating, and controlling undead..... I am aware that the alignment restriction to the Society play outlaws evil alignments.... With that said, do you guys believe such a character, most likely chaotic neutral, would be viable in the campaign setting? Will other players revolt against or bond with the character and his overall dealings with the dead?
Please share with me your thoughts and experience in this potential matter, thanks in advance.
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Before this thread gets out of hand... lets look at what other characters might be in a team of pathfinders...
Anyone that worships Pharasma would have a huge issue with this.
Ostensibly anyone that's Andoran would have a huge issue with this (see Colson Maldriss's speech in First Steps - Part II: To Delve the Dungeon Deep.)
Paladins are likely to have a huge problem with this.
While that isn't a huge cross-section of the character base for PFS, it is fairly sizable enough, that you are likely to run into an issue of one or more characters every other scenario or so, that are going to have an issue with you controlling undead as your character schitck.
That being said, there are those out there who have created necromancers and been fairly successful with them.
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My Druid would likely care, undead are unnatural. But wouldn't refuse to adventure with you, as that's your thing.
My LG Wizard/Paladin/Eldritch Knight of Erastil would hate your character and simply refuse the mission if your necromancer was part of the team.
My Andoran Sir Captain Eagle Knight Bbauzh ap Aghauzh would refuse to adventure with you on general principle.
My Szarni Fighter/Rogue (poisoner) wouldn't care.
My Chelaxian gnome cavalier/alchemist wouldn't care. He'd probably think it was neat.
My Monk would likely find it distasteful, but wouldn't refuse to adventure with you. Most of the distaste is that the Monk has had tons of trouble, multiple scenarios, with undead (died to a haunt effect).
My Kitsune Musketmaster wouldn't care.
My Tengu Court Bard is a jerk and would find some way to insult you regardless what you were (paladin or necromancer).
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You might consider the Skeletal Summons feat. It adds the basic "Skeleton" to your summon monster I list and adds Skeletal Champion to your summon monster III list. Also, 1/day you can apply the skeleton template to an appropriate summon.
This way, you'd get to use undead without paying for costly spell components or dealing with other limitations of "real" undead. Also, strongly anti-undeath PCs might be more willing to keep quiet when your skeletal minions are conjured out of nowhere rather than being raised from real dead people.
"No creatures were harmed in the making of this skeleton..."
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It still baffles me that JuJu mystery for Oracles is not PFS legal. It would allow people to play a "necromancer" character and not have any fear of "evilness" or problems with other characters. The Spirit Vessels revelations makes your mindless undead neutral instead of evil, and your non-mindless undead your alignment. You could have LG undead!
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Venture-Agent, Illinois—Kakankee
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I do plan on using skeletal summons at lower levels, but the hang up most people will have is animate dead.....
The other thing I have considered is that a lot of players have characters based around devils, demons, and other less than desirable elements that during "games ago" would be looked at with the same type of "ugh" that a necromancer does still to this day....
So I guess I am still undecided on what my next course of action will be...
To undead or not to undead... that is the question.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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It still baffles me that JuJu mystery for Oracles is not PFS legal. It would allow people to play a "necromancer" character and not have any fear of "evilness" or problems with other characters. The Spirit Vessels revelations makes your mindless undead neutral instead of evil, and your non-mindless undead your alignment. You could have LG undead!
It's a canon issue: the campaign setting does not include non-evil undead.
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It still baffles me that JuJu mystery for Oracles is not PFS legal. It would allow people to play a "necromancer" character and not have any fear of "evilness" or problems with other characters. The Spirit Vessels revelations makes your mindless undead neutral instead of evil, and your non-mindless undead your alignment. You could have LG undead!
In golarion, undead are evil. Juju zombies are non evil undead, so they don't fit.
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Venture-Agent, Illinois—Kakankee
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True, Undead, 99.9999999% (ok all of them) are evil, but so are devils. It’s all about power it seems, you help found / manipulate a country and you’re "in".
How have paladins (and other LGs) managed to adventure with those classes that could be construed as "not so good"?
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Socar,
I have a cleric of Urgathoa with the in death domain, so I completely get where you are coming from. Here's a couple tips that I have from my experience:
1) Some GMs or players will object. Just be sensitive to people for whom it's a problem. Lets just say making undead shouldn't be the only thing your character can do. However, having played my cleric for 12 levels, I have found that its much more important that you act nicely about it. Don't do stupid/jerking/bullying things because "that's what my character would do". I have found that by playing nicely, often a player will not object, even if their character does :)
2) Animate dead is actually not really worth it. Remember, it doesn't persist past the end of a scenario. It's expensive, plus your skeletons have a tendency to get munched in their first combat. I did it a few times for the novelty, but then really I went back to what my character is actually good at: negative channeling.
Okay, that's my 2cp!
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Undead are evil except in extremely rare situations. Ghosts are pretty much the only undead who can ever be not evil. And neutral ghosts- let alone good- are extremely rare indeed.
I do kind of want to see a scenario with a LG ghost now- I think that would confuse a lot of players and be an interesting roleplay opportunity.
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Cheliax is a nation of evil humans, and there are good people there. Geb is a nation that is evil, why can't there be good undead and humans there?
Because being undead is not just an alternate lifestyle. It is not a morally relativistic choice. It is not a statement against the arbitrary nature of human morality.
Its evil with a capital EVIL. You are taking the very essence of evil itself, dragging it into our dimension and wrapping it up in the meat that used to be a person into an unholy mockery of life and letting it run loose. Its like trying to juggle a carton of "my pet ebola virus" and thinking you're not doing anything wrong because you haven't dropped it yet. That thing animating the corpse doesn't just have a desire to rip and tear soft, tender, innocent flesh it IS the very desire to rip and tear soft innocent flesh itself.
3.5 had an article about against type sorta' things or something like that and I think several stories of a succubus paladin came up. Maybe you got it from there?
My biggest worry about playing a necromancer at a table is other peoples reactions. If you already have people who just refuse to play with you there is a problem, and I've met several players who would turn down tables or worse take it out in character over it. Bad mojo. I usually try and avoid playing characters who are questionable at the table, if only for group cohesion.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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My LG Wizard/Paladin/Eldritch Knight of Erastil would hate your character and simply refuse the mission if your necromancer was part of the team.
My Andoran Sir Captain Eagle Knight Bbauzh ap Aghauzh would refuse to adventure with you on general principle.
Hey there, Andrew.
I'd like to challenge you on this topic, if I can do so without coming off as hostile. Out of curiosity, how would these characters explain their decision to their Venture Captain?
Let's say that Ambrus Valsin begins the conversation with something like: "Excuse me, agent, but I'm curious as to why you're refusing the assignment. I'd thought that your training had made clear that the Society is a big-tent sort of organization. We have a cackling demoniac off in the corner of the room, and a couple clerics of Zon-Kuthon out in the kitchen, helping to prepare the chickens for dinner. What part of 'explore, report, cooperate' is unclear in these matters?"
A slightly different question, which I'm asking because I struggle with the same thing: how would you make sure the player understood this was an in-character conflict, rather than a player-vs.-player conflict?
I've got a paladin PC, and I also have a cleric of Charon. I've been on both sides of the good guy / dark guy conflict. I've had fun playing them in parties where they don't quite fit or where there's some potential for internescene friction, because that's how I get to figure out just what their personalities are.
Peace rest with you.
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My paladin would have a problem with working with a necromancer, but she'd still do it. As Chris said, the Society's motto is "Explore, Report, COOPERATE". So there might be a minute or two of RP debate about allowing it, and I'd constantly make snide remarks the entire scenario, but I'd just be having fun RPing my PC hating the necro PC. It wouldn't be a conflict between players, unless the necro player got overly sensitive about it.