Dervish Dancing Gunslinger - Am I just crazy?

[Daelen]

So, I had this idea tonight and can't seem to get the image out of my head of a character whirling around a battlefield firing off his pistol and/or slashing and stabbing foes left and right. I have personally seen this done with a Dawnflower Dervish Bard/Mysterious Stranger to some interesting effect, but I wonder if its doable going straight Gunslinger, maybe even without archetype. Obviously Quick Draw would be necessary, as would Rapid Reload. Am I just crazy or does this have some merit?

[kaisc006]

It might be possible with a pistolero and pepperbox. You would get six shots off before jumping into the fray and work similar to a switch hitter. A quick thought on feat progression might be:

For human:
1st: Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance
3rd: Point Blank Shot
4th: Rapid Shot
5th: Pirhanha Strike
7th: Deadly Aim

You could forgoe rapid reload all together and begin wielding both pepperbox (with a weapon cord attached) and scimitar together. When you are ready to enter melee, simply drop the pepperbox so your hand is free. If you still have a few shots left, retrieve it as a swift later. At later levels, then quick draw will become useful for multiple pepperboxes but 6 shots will serve at lower levels.

[Daelen]

You can't pick up Dervish Dance at 1st because of prereqs, you need 2 ranks in Perform: Dance. I was thinking perhaps switching Point Blank Shot and Dervish Dance. Also, I don't think Piranha Strike works with a Scimitar as its not a light weapon.

[kaisc006]

I thought it might not work at 1st. Yeah they can switch and you'd need weapon cords on both weapons since the pepperbox requires a free hadn to rotate the barrels. A sample stat array could be this:

Str: 13
Dex: 18 (+2 race)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

This allows access to power attack. If you want to optimize more dump cha.

[blackbloodtroll]

Why not a Pistol Dagger with the Agile enchantment?

[Daelen]

blackbloodtroll: Firstly for the imagery, I don't see this character using a single weapon. Also, mechanically a Dagger Pistol is a 1d4 weapon instead of a 1d6 weapon and a 1d8 weapon.

kaisc006: Yeah, I figured a copious amount of weapon cords might be required for this to work. Alternatively, I was just thinking I might could go Agile weapon and pick up Sword and Pistol for a little more TWF action... but I don't know.

[blackbloodtroll]

Hmm, Weapon Cords, and Spingloaded Wrist Sheathes will help this PC.

What is the point buy?

What books are allowed?

What races are allowed?

[Daelen]

This isn't for an actual game yet, but assume 20 point buy, anything Paizo Pathfinder specific, including the ARG.

[blackbloodtroll]

Is Bard a must?

[Daelen]

Bard isn't part of it... The build that inspired the idea had levels of bard, I want pure gunslinger if possible

[Jack Rift]

Sword and pistol is a nice feat! Not sure for this set up though.

[Hayato Ken]

It´s a Gangplank!

Sword and pistol should be really good on it and volley or what´s it called. Some feat give you +4 to hit with melee weapon after ranged attack.

[Sagewind]

Daelen wrote:

So, I had this idea tonight and can't seem to get the image out of my head of a character whirling around a battlefield firing off his pistol and/or slashing and stabbing foes left and right. I have personally seen this done with a Dawnflower Dervish Bard/Mysterious Stranger to some interesting effect, but I wonder if its doable going straight Gunslinger, maybe even without archetype. Obviously Quick Draw would be necessary, as would Rapid Reload. Am I just crazy or does this have some merit?

I am working on a similar character after recently starting Pathfinder for the first time. After playing 4th Ed D&D for a while, PF has been very refreshing. My own concept is more of a swashbuckler first and a gunman second, though the primary class is Gunslinger (currently Level 2).

I am working my way up to Level 6, then moving into the Duelist Prestige Class for a few levels before reaching at least Level 11 in Gunslinger. By 18th Level, assuming the campaign makes it that far, I should have the character set to Level 11 Gunslinger / Level 7 Duelist.

Here's my Ability Array at Level 1, though your mileage may vary:

Race: Human
STR 10
DEX 18 (16 +2 Racial)
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 8

Level 1:
1 Rank in Perform: Dance.
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Dodge.

Level 2:
1 Rank in Perform: Dance.

Level 3:
Feat: Dervish Dance. Now you can use a scimitar and immediately gain +4 to damage rolls. Additionally, the scimitar is considered a light weapon for purposes of feats and class abilities. This is key at level 7.

Level 4:
Ability: +1 Dexterity. DEX 19.
Gunslinger Bonus Feat: Mobility. Needed as Duelist prerequisite, and the Dodge Bonus to AC stacks with your Gunslinger's Dodge vs. Opportunity Attacks.

Level 5:
Feat: Rapid Reload or Quick Draw. You'll need both either way.

Level 6:
You don't get too much here, but you do get your Nimble +2 which only makes your Dodge Bonus to AC higher.

Level 7:
Multiclass: Level 1 Duelist.
At Level 1 that INT 14 has given you +1 to AC. You've received two consecutive bonuses to AC now. You also get a +1 to scimitar damage from Precise Strike.

Feat: Now grab either Rapid Reload or Quick Draw, depending on which one you did not grab at Level 5. If you took both of them at 4 and 5, you don't meet the requirements for Duelist. Now you can draw and re-holster your pistol to keep that hand free or take pot shots at ranged enemies.

Level 8:
Ability: +1 Dexterity. DEX 20.
If you go Level 2 Duelist, you gain the ability to parry. You also get another +1 to AC because of INT in addition to +2 Initiative, and another +1 to Initiative as well as Attacks and Damage, due to your higher DEX.

Not considering enhancement bonuses on weapons, your attack with scimitar is: BAB +8 (Gunslinger 6 + Duelist 2) DEX +5 = +13.

Not considering enhancement bonuses on weapons, your damage with scimitar is: 1d6+7 (DEX 5 + Duelist 2).

Not considering enhancement bonuses, leather armor would be giving you AC 10 + Leather 2 + Nimble 2 + Canny Defense (Duelist) 2 + DEX 5 + Dodge 1 = 22. When you trigger opportunity attacks, your AC becomes 30 (Mobility 4 + Gunslinger's Dodge 4) at the cost of 1 Grit Point. If you want to use Studded Leather, raise that to 23 and 31 respectively.

Level 9:
Take Level 3 Duelist. Now Enhanced Mobility gives you another +4 vs. Opportunity Attacks. You're now AC 34 or 35 vs. OA. Scimitar damage goes up one when using Precise Strike.

Feat: Weapon Focus in Scimitars. Now you get another +1 to attacks.

Level 10:
Level Gunslinger to 7. You get new Deeds. Not much else. This level is somewhat of a dead zone aside from the BAB going up as you don't even get any increases to your Saves.

Level 11:
This is the sweet spot. Level Gunslinger to 8, and you get your Bonus Feat while also getting your Level 11 Feat. You can choose Weapon Specialization in scimitar to add another +2 damage. Deft Shootist to no longer provoke OA (defeats your insane AC vs. OA's. though), or take Weapon Focus in Pistols to get +1 when shooting. Extra Grit wouldn't hurt either, since you'd be doubling your Grit Pool from 2 to 4. That means more Gunslinger's Dodge. Either way, pick two.

---

Now you can change the order around and take Duelist at Character Level 8 so that you get the two feats at once by going back to Gunslinger at Character Level 9, but the Duelist Prestige Class will be the one enhancing your swordplay abilities as well as your map control (movement). At Gunslinger Level 5 you received your Dex Bonus to Firearm damage, and not much other than Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization will raise that by much more, whereas more levels in Duelist will add directly to your scimitar damage during Precise Strike.

[Hayato Ken]

Unfortunately, the dervish dance feat doesn´t function with something in your off-hand.

[Sagewind]

Hayato Ken wrote:

Unfortunately, the dervish dance feat doesn´t function with something in your off-hand.

That's what the Quick Draw Feat is for. You're either using your sword or your pistol, but not both at once. You can still draw your pistol and take a shot, then re-holster the gun. Or, at later levels, have single-shot pistols (one to three pistols) that are throw-away.

The idea is that you can actually use a pistol to get a shot off while still holding the scimitar, though you would not use the scimitar while you're using the pistol. Discarding the pistol is a free action.

[Kazaan]

Agile, close-quarters combat using firearms as both ranged weapons and melee weapons? Here ya go.

[Diodric]

Daelen wrote:

You can't pick up Dervish Dance at 1st because of prereqs, you need 2 ranks in Perform: Dance. I was thinking perhaps switching Point Blank Shot and Dervish Dance. Also, I don't think Piranha Strike works with a Scimitar as its not a light weapon.

I remember reading somewhere here on the forums a developer mentioned that you are allowed to take a feat before you fulfill the prerequisites. However, you only gain the benefits of the feat when you fulfill them, even if only temporarily. I think his example was Power Attack. You could take the feat if you had a 12 Str but only use it if your Str was buffed to at least 13 through say Rage or Bull's Strength.

Just mentioning it for the purpose of the build.

[Sagewind]

Sagewind wrote:

Hayato Ken wrote:

Unfortunately, the dervish dance feat doesn´t function with something in your off-hand.

That's what the Quick Draw Feat is for. You're either using your sword or your pistol, but not both at once. You can still draw your pistol and take a shot, then re-holster the gun. Or, at later levels, have single-shot pistols (one to three pistols) that are throw-away.

The idea is that you can actually use a pistol to get a shot off while still holding the scimitar, though you would not use the scimitar while you're using the pistol. Discarding the pistol is a free action.

Quick Draw at Level 4, 5, or 7. In the build I provided above, Quick Draw and Rapid Reload have both been acquired before multiclassing into Duelist yet after grabbing Dervish Dance at Level 3. Taking Dervish Dance at Level 3 provides a boost to melee damage prior to getting Gun Training at Level 5, which adds DEX to Firearms damage.

You could always take Dervish Dance at Level 7, but the damage boost is arguably more important than waiting until Level 7.

The reason why Dervish Dance requires one hand to be free is because you are moving the sword between both hands as a part of your fighting style. Although you won't receive the Duelist Class Bonuses or Dervish Dance while there is a firearm in one hand, the idea of the build is to focus on melee with firearms as a prominent backup despite the primary Gunslinger class.

Initiative.

Round 1: Shoot (Standard), drop single-shot pistol (Free), draw scimitar (Free with Quick Draw), close distance (Move).

Round 2: Attack with scimitar as necessary (Standard), or use Gunslinger's Dodge vs. Ranged Attacks (Move; you don't need to be holding a pistol to do so). If you sidestepped while next to an opponent, you don't receive the Gunslinger's Dodge bonus, but you do receive the Duelist bonuses as well as Dodge/Mobility bonuses.

Round 3: If still a space away from the opponent you were previously next to, you can draw another pistol (free action) and shoot (standard) or if they come in close, you can take another swing with the scimitar.

Your scimitar is in your primary hand if you're using it to attack, and it is in your off-hand if you've drawn your pistol. You just lose your melee bonuses to Dervish Dance and Duelist Class if you keep the pistol in your hand while performing attacks with the scimitar.

Hayato Ken wrote:

Unfortunately, the dervish dance feat doesn´t function with something in your off-hand.

Problem solved.

Keeping in line with the theme of firearms in a high fantasy setting, or keeping it closer to historical truth, you would fire off a pistol and then go to your sword, or fire off a blunderbuss at point blank before switching to your sword. Swashbuckling pirate style!

[Jaxtile]

I like this idea. While a bit feat intensive, seems to handle itself pretty well, and the flavour is awesome.
Shoot n stab!