Traps and archetypes from Dungeoneer's Handbook


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There are three new archetypes in the Dungeoneer's Handbook which deal with traps. Two of the three have some issues with the wording of their trap related abilities, however.

The Trap Breaker alchemist archetype is the one which clearly states that it can disarm magical traps. The Dungeon Rover ranger and Terra-Cotta monk archetypes, however, seem to be unclear. Here is how their respective abilities are worded:

Dungeon Rover ranger: Stone Scouting (Ex) A dungeon rover gains a +2 bonus on Perception checks to notice underground environmental hazards, including traps, potential cave-ins, and dangerous flora. A dungeon rover receives a check to notice these hazards whenever he passes within 10 feet of them, whether or not he is actively looking.
This ability replaces track.

Terra-Cotta monk: Trap Intuition (Ex) At 2nd level, whenever a terra-cotta monk comes within 10 feet of a trap, he receives an immediate Perception check to notice the trap. The GM should make this check in secret. A terra-cotta monk gains a +2 bonus on Perception checks to notice traps. This bonus increases to +4 if the trap is located in a stone wall or floor.
This ability replaces evasion.

The problem for me is that there always has been a clear distinction between mechanical and magical traps. Mechanical traps could be found and disabled by everyone with Perception and Disable Device. For magical traps one needed the Trapfinding ability.

These new abilities make no mention of the different types of traps, so for me it seems unclear if the language is all-inclusive or if it is insufficient to include all types of traps. Furthermore, the archetypes seem to have no ability to disarm magical traps, even if the wording allows detection of them, which I personally find as pretty sub-optimal design, unless there is a new "You gain Trapfinding" feat in the book.

Opinions?


If one of the archetypes specifically mentions magical traps and the other two do not, I would argue the other two cannot detect magical traps per the quoted abilities.


The distinction has, traditionally, been between DISARMING magical or mechanical traps. Though I agree the wording could easily be interpreted as mechanical there is nothing wrong with allowing magical traps to be detected as well. They're still in the same boat either way. Plus, how often will these abilities genuinely come up?

Scarab Sages

Shane LeRose wrote:
Plus, how often will these abilities genuinely come up?

Frequently.

Trapfinding allows the disarming of magical traps. Everybody can locate them.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

When someone reads some new ability or other game content, and gets the impression that it doesn't square with their understanding of related rules, how come the first reaction always seems to be "This new content must be wrong/unclear/poorly designed" and never "I should re-read that part of the rules and see if my understanding was wrong"?

Core Rulebook: Environment chapter: Traps: Perception and Disable Device DCs wrote:

Mechanical Trap: The base DC for both Perception and Disable Device checks is 20. Raising or lowering either of these DCs affects the CR (Table: CR Modifiers for Mechanical Traps).

Magic Trap: The DC for both Perception and Disable Device checks is equal to 25 + the spell level of the highest-level spell used. Only characters with the trapfinding class feature can attempt a Disable Device check involving a magic trap.

As you can see, the only restriction on who can do what is on the use of Disable Device against magic traps. Anyone can already detect magic traps with a sufficient Perception check.


Everybody and their grandma can notice magical traps, they just can't disable them. Those two archetypes just get bonuses to their perception checks. You still need Trapfinding to disarm them.
And suboptimal doesn't even cover it. A +2 perception only for traps in exchange for evasion? I hope that archetype gives some hefty bonuses on other abilities, cause that is godawful.

Shane LeRose wrote:
Plus, how often will these abilities genuinely come up?

Exactly as much as Trapfinding. Depends on how many traps the DM uses and if they're a real threat or just a roadbump. In about 90% of all games? So rarely as to be useless.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Well, I stand corrected on the Perception issue. That those two archetypes don't allow the disarming of magical traps is really a bit sad, though. Oh, well. At least the Alchemist gets an official archetype which allows it ( although it already had one with the Crypt Breaker ). I've allowed Trapfinding as a feat in my campaigns, anyway. ^^

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