Hello MESSAGEBOARDS!
I have fallen in love with the cleric class, there isn't a role they can't fill, though there are spots that they lack or are limited.
I was thinking the other day about optimizing a heavy hitting Cleric, and how to build one. They would revolve around a standard attack, dealing as much damage as possible with one swing. That's the goal I am trying to reach. I decided an 11th level Cleric would be a good place to start, and can reverse engineer it down to 1st level if needed.
Now my thoughts were that they would channel negative energy, the majority of the time you will face living creatures, but sometimes you need to hit that undead baddy hard,so versatile channeling will make it into the build if I can get it to fit.
Starting out, I'm going to pick human as a race, with a 20 pt buy stat spread.
The starting stats will look like this:
Str 16 (+2)
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 7
Wis 14
Cha 14
Ok, first off, Str will be primary, and probably the only stat getting the bonus points. I wanted a positive Cha, for extra channels, and a positive Wis, to increase the DC of channeled energy as much as we can afford. This guy isn't being built to take a lot of hits, he's built to hit a homerun in one round, quite possibly killing a BBEG in one hit, maybe two if he survives.
So next up, we have domains. Now my DM allows "ideal" worshipping, so We have a ton of flexibility. Rage (destruction) fits in with the smite ability, doesn't even cost an action, and at 8th level you can enter a rage like a barbarian. Protean (Chaos) is one of my favorite domains, and witha conductive weapon, allows us to force the creature to reroll their will save, granting us a better chance to deal full damage. And as a bonus, Gorum has access to both domains, and has the greatsword as a favored weapon. BONUS!
So next come the feats.
1st: Improved Channel, Channel Smite
3rd: Power Attack
5th: Furious Focus
7th: Weapon Focus
9th: Vital Strike
11th: Extra Channel
Improved Channel to up the DC, Channel Smite because that's what I'm trying to build around. Power Attack is a great feat, adds a great bonus to damage. Furious focus because it allows us to ignore the Power Attack penatly, for the first attack of the round. It fits great because our cleric is being built for only one attack a round. Same goes for Vital Strike. Weapon Focus is there for the bonus to hit. Extra Channel is there to help increase our ability to smite more often.
Equipment! Who doesn't like buying equipment? Arguably one of the better aspects of building a character! HAHAHA
Weapon, weapon, weapon is our primary item, our build is dependent on it.
We have 82,000 gold to spend on our equipment. Lets start going over abilities:
Spell Storing: a great way to add some bonus dice to our damage, even though we are limited to only 3rd level spells.
Conductive: a great ability, allowing us to use our Touch of Chaos on our opponent.
Flat enhancement bonus: A great way to add some much needed static damage and bonus to hit.
So perusing the magic item list, a +4 Spell Storing Conductive Greatsword will cost us 72,000 gold.
A hefty price for a great weapon, but that only leaves us 10,000 gold for other items to buff our damage. Let's list a few good ones, and we can pick and choose what we want.
Belt of Giant's Strength +4: 16000 gold
And honestly I looked for awhile, but nothing really increased our base damage that I could find. Maybe you know of some other abilities I could look at.
If we drop our greatsword to +2, we will have enough to buy a Belt of GS +4, a headband of wis+4 and have some left over for armor, even though for the purpose of this build we aren't worrying about surviving after the first hit.
So our gear looks like this:
+2 Spell Storing Conductive Greatsword
Belt of Giant Str +4
Headband of Wisdom +4
+3 Mithril Breastplate
Honestly, not too shabby compared to other 11th level characters, but lacking some potentially serious gear to survive long, but we aren't worried about that for this. Headband is to help with the Channel Smite DC, and to cast spells. Belt of GS is to help hit and damage. Nothing new or exciting there.
So our revised stats look like this:
Str 24
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 7
Wis 18
Cha 14
All ability increases went into Str.
So let's look at our potential to hit and damage. Finally, the meat of the topic.
Assuming you are within melee, and are not suffering any effects that affect anything, really... We are looking at:
+8 (base) +7 (str) +2 (Magic) +1 (Weapon Focus) = +18 to hit
Could be better, but lacks the buff of a full BAB progression.
Add in Divine power at CL 11, that becomes a +21.
Base Damage, using Vital Strike, Channel Smite, Power Attack and Inflict Serious Wounds stored in our sword:
2d6 + 2d6 (vital) + 10 (Str) +2 (Magic) + 9 (Power Attack) + 6d6 (Channel) + (3d8+11) (inflict Spell stored = (average rolls) 80.5 damage
80.5 damage assuming average rolls. And if the target fails both will saves, due to our conductive touch of chaos.
At level 11.
7/day....
You can double check me on my math, but for the most part, I think I'm right...
Just play a big hit build fighter. HAHAHAHA
So our big hit cleric is really a small time hitter. So he isn't going to deal great damage, but you have to admit, the idea of a holy warrior dropping the pain on a BBEG in one hit was a good one. I'm sure there are other ways, more efficient ways, to build a nasty hitter like I want. I'm just not seeing the best ways to go about it. But you only get better at optimization if you work at it, right?
Thank you for participating in my theory craft. Please leave a comment, correct my errors, weigh in with other options, or viable channel smite builds. I'm only human, and therefore fallible.
Have a great one!
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Leave the sword as a +1 vicious.
Armor is a masterwork mithral breastplate.
Pick up a lesser quicken, a lesser extend, & a standard extend rod.
Belt of Strength is good.
Headband needs to be Cha (or Cha&Wis) since all channel stuff is keyed off Cha.
Spells to prep:
Divine Power (1st)
Weapon of Awe (2nd)
Bears Endurance (2nd)
Magic Vestment (3rd)
Greater Magic Weapon (4th)
Blessing of Fervor (4th)
You're a cleric, so use those spells to your advantage. Use the money you saved on expensive weapons and armor to buy pearls of power and metamagic rods.
I'm sure there are other ways, more efficient ways, to build a nasty hitter like I want. I'm just not seeing the best ways to go about it. But you only get better at optimization if you work at it, right?
The problem you're facing is that there is no good way to go about it.
One hit builds are weak. Vital Strike is a trap. Channel Smite is lousy. You're trying to maximize a bunch of bad things.
You did do a pretty good job at it, but I don't think you're going to get much better. The only things I could think of involve getting much bigger (perhaps taking the Growth domain instead of Chaos?) and buying a Phylactery of Negative Energy Channel.
Do'h. Totally forgot that the DC is based off of Cha. HAHAH
What i was trying to do was create a build of a cleric to do AS MUCH DAMAGE AS HE POSSIBLY CAN!!!!!! (going for the epic feel for the caps) in one hit. Yeah, with average rolls, he doesn't break into triple digits at 11. Sigh, it was fun though.
Psionichamster, that would make a great party member. Definitely geared out better. +1 for your name too. HAHA
So totally true for trying to maximize bad things. For a game needing optimization, it's extremely poor. But for a homebrew just relaxing, this build would be mighty fun to play, even if you didn't survive the first combat. Scare the DM by grabbing a bunch of dice, and a claculator (just for kicks), maybe even kicking off your shoes to count on toes. LOL and then surprise him with a lousy 80 damage. HAHAHA
This honestly was more an exercise in me practicing theory crafting, and seeing if my posts made sense. While I knew it wasn't going to bethe huge over 9000 damage, I am surprised that the damage is so little... LOL
Thank you guys though, for weighing in. I love theory crafting, and maybe someday I'll actually turn it towards a viable build. HAHAHA
Channeled Smite is not necessarily a trap, IF you go Guided Hand and Improved Channel Smite.
If you take it on it's own though...it is pretty trappy.
Against most undead you'd use it on, you're often better Channeling to heal the party as you damage it. Sometimes though, it's nice to be able to swing a big pool of dice at the big bad.
Am I missing something with guided hand? It looks like it doesn't do anything at all for damage. A battle cleric isn't going to care overly much for maxed out wisdom, so I don't understand the point since the STR is going to be higher than WIS on such a character.
As for taking vital strike, don't waste your time with taking feat if you don't want to, its profitable to just take the domain that lets you use any combat feat you qualify for (8th level is when you get it, and when you qualify for vital strike). When it makes sense to vital strike, you vital strike. All the benefits without actually taking the feat.
I've been playing in PFS a big hit cleric, and he has been very effective in low level play. At 4th level his record in play damage is a 49 damage crit (would have been 52 but the enemy saved vs channel). The domains I took were rage and tactics, 1st rage domain power gives you destructive smite. +1/2 cleric level bonus damage is not bad. The above hit was a 2(2d6+15)+2d6channel attack. I had bull strength, power attack, divine favor, destructive smite and 18 base strength for the damage. (6str+3bull+2destructive+3PA+1DF). Not too bad for a low level character. At 8th level I gain Rage and limited use of any combat feat I want. So I will be able to add 3 more damage and a vital strike to my attacks (and my channel will be up to 4d6 and Destructive smite will be 4 damage). At 8th that will increase to around 25 static damage and the weapon damage + vital strike dice + channel dice will be 8d6 (which is average about 28 if they fail the save, 21 if they succeed). That is without any magic weapon or its properties at work. It gets even larger if I manage to enlarge myself (and I have multi paths to doing so).
At 8th level dealing consistent 50ish damage with a single attack action is acceptable. Past this level range the effectiveness starts to fall off(drastically). This is mostly because the gimmicks that make it work don't progress very fast compared to other full BAB systems (most notably the archer's ability to take full attack action with extra strikes every round). At low levels the build 1 shots nearly everything it encounters. At higher levels it still contributes, but it will take a beating since it won't be able to 1 shot as many things (and thus eat full attack actions).
In short I would recommend such a build for PFS play, but would suggest a different plan at higher levels encountered in AP play.
Guided Hand, with Point Buy, is a stopgap for a serious math problem.
Your average cleric needs Stength, Constitution, Wisdom, and Charisma. It's a brutal combination that leaves your statline in shambles in low point buy.
Since you want Maximum Wisdom for a Cleric anyway, Guided Hand lets you ignore your STR to an extent, and hit someone consistently, at a decent rate. Your damage will be lame, but a Melee Cleric gets a LOT of attack/damage buffs, so it doesn't matter as much.
+1 Keen Spellstoring Conductive will be fine. Invest in getting +1 CL for GMW and MW instead.
Consider growth subdomain to get swift action enlarge person
Guided Hand, with Point Buy, is a stopgap for a serious math problem.
Your average cleric needs Stength, Constitution, Wisdom, and Charisma. It's a brutal combination that leaves your statline in shambles in low point buy.
Since you want Maximum Wisdom for a Cleric anyway, Guided Hand lets you ignore your STR to an extent, and hit someone consistently, at a decent rate. Your damage will be lame, but a Melee Cleric gets a LOT of attack/damage buffs, so it doesn't matter as much.
Why do you want max wisdom for a battle cleric? You don't need high DCs for your spells if they don't force saves.
A melee cleric with high strength still gets the benefits of the buffs, so the damage is not lame without buffs, and a really strong with.
A battle cleric needs STR, WIS, CON, and CHA, but only STR needs to actually be high. The others just need to be good enough. At 20 point buy I managed to get 18,9,16,7,15,13 as my stats. I did this with the alt human racial that I took. Clerics suck at skills anyways, so dumping int all the way and just taking the favored class bonus works to still get 2 SP per level. I gave up the feat at first level that humans get with some reluctance, but its not like a battle cleric qualifies for many good combat feats at level 1.
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If you're going on to play the cleric in higher levels you need the high wisdom to be a good caster, because not all situations can be solved by melee. With guided hand you make your top stat your to hit stat.
High Wisdom not only gives high DCs, but bonus spells and a really good will save.
So you have a flexible battle cleric, that will only deal a little bit less damage but be a great caster alongside.
Think about Frightful Aspect and a quickened Divine Power at level 16; will it really matter if you do 3d6+35 or 3d6+32 with one hit?
Because of the maxed out wisdom, you can do such a thing more often.
If you're going on to play the cleric in higher levels you need the high wisdom to be a good caster, because not all situations can be solved by melee. With guided hand you make your top stat your to hit stat.
High Wisdom not only gives high DCs, but bonus spells and a really good will save.
So you have a flexible battle cleric, that will only deal a little bit less damage but be a great caster alongside.
Think about Frightful Aspect and a quickened Divine Power at level 16; will it really matter if you do 3d6+35 or 3d6+32 with one hit?
Because of the maxed out wisdom, you can do such a thing more often.
Precisely. It's not about your DCs, it's about being able to play the character across 20 levels.
Now, if you know you aren't going past level 10, you might be able to squeak by on a 15 for your entire career.
For the most part though, the majority of clerics are going to want to get that massive Wisdom stat, so as to keep their spellcasting strong.