There seems to be very little reason to be a Universalist wizard. An extra spell per day at each level seems too good to pass up, and the restricted spell schools hardly seem an issue since they're usually spells the player wouldn't choose anyway because of the play-style they want to go for.
Do other people think there is a balance issue between Universalists and specialized wizards? If not, how does Universalist even out? If yes, have you taken any houseruling steps to even the playing field?
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I generally think it's the other schools that are a bit too good...
That said, in other threads it's been suggested to give the universalist 4 free spells per level instead of two, as a nod towards their more studious and broad perspective.
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But I actually LIKE the school powers of universalists. And for this character elemental is not a good roleplaying fit, as poor a reason that some might consider.
It is all good.
Personally: I have been building my geomancers since second edition. Mechanics have very little to do with my choice, though they currently work in my favor.
If the schools themselves were better balanced there would be less of a problem, but too many things are immune to enchantment and too much blasting has leaked to conjuration and necromancy is still too small and focused on an option most players either cannot or will not pursue.
And the divination power is still far too good.
I'm actually trying to do a remake of the wizard right now (or rather an alternative class) where I'll try to balance the schools better compared to abilities. And limit access to non-school spells more.
I see this as being a more significant problem at lower levels, since that seems to be when bonus spells per day matter the most, and I tend to run games with low (starting at 1st-5th) level characters.
Maybe they can. But I actually LIKE the school powers of universalists. And for this character elemental is not a good roleplaying fit, as poor a reason that some might consider.
Roleplaying usually trumps powergaming with my players, and if they really wanted to play a universalist, they would, but at the same time I don't want to start a low-level campaign and have a player being either unable to consider certain options because they are strictly worse, or to choose that option and then be outclassed by another wizard in the group. Having every option be 100% balanced is impossible, but I'd like to close the gap as much as possible.
Additional free spells is a decent idea. Some other thoughts I've had:
-Removing the bonus spells of specialisst and replacing it with something else (bumped up save DCs?)
-Give universalists 1 bonus spell slot to spontenously cast a spell of any level that they know, like arcane bond. That would lend itself to versatility.
With the latter suggestion, the Universalist would be better than the other for the first few levels, but would fall behind a bit as the other gain more spell slots, and then even out as the number of spells per day matters less.
Raising DCs sounds a bit iffy. Possibly doing it through extra free feats might be more appealing without helping wizards supercharge their DCs with an untyped bonus.
Extra spell like arcane bond sounds nice. Possibly picking prefered spells at certain levels to give back the lost ones, but reflect multiple specializations.
I want to say let them pick a school each day to be their focus, but that sounds powerful if you think the universalist school has powerful school abilities, and its opens up the versatility a little too much probably.
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Do not try to balance any class by comparing it to a Wizard. Not even another Wizard.
That way madness lies.
Do not try to balance any class by comparing it to a Wizard. Not even another Wizard.
That way madness lies.
Some wizards are more equal than others.
I will embrace this madness!
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if you really want to empower wizards (i suggest against it), maybe allow universalists to take both arcane bonds at the same time?
Allowing just an extra free spontaneous slot per day seems way too good, and steps on the toes of the sorcerer a LOT (spontaneous casting from most of the spell list, as opposed to just from a few spells known, is incredibly powerful).
But maybe this? The universalist gets to choose either to have both arcane bonds (familiar and item) with both benefits and drawbacks, or to have just the item bond but suffer no penalty for losing the item, or to have just a familiar but that it's abilities is calculated as if two levels higher?
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One thing I've considered to balance the specialists vs. the universalist is to change how prohibited schools work. Prohibited school spells would have to be memorized in a slot two levels higher, but still have the DC and spell level of the normal spell. For example, if light were a prohibited spell, you could memorize it as a 2nd level spell, but it would still be considered a 0th level spell for countering darkness. This would have a side effect of cutting out 8th and 9th level spells of the prohibited school for the specialist. Not a big deal except at high levels.
Additionally, the specialist would be prohibited from creating or using a spell completion or trigger item with a prohibited school spell, unless the spell was in the specialist's book. Thus eliminating the "who cares if it requires two spell slots? It's on my spell list, so I'll just get a scroll or wand."
Not perfect, but a better incentive to consider a universalist, but not so crippling that a specialist isn't worth it.
One thing I've considered to balance the specialists vs. the universalist is to change how prohibited schools work. Prohibited school spells would have to be memorized in a slot two levels higher, but still have the DC and spell level of the normal spell. For example, if light were a prohibited spell, you could memorize it as a 2nd level spell, but it would still be considered a 0th level spell for countering darkness. This would have a side effect of cutting out 8th and 9th level spells of the prohibited school for the specialist. Not a big deal except at high levels.
Additionally, the specialist would be prohibited from creating or using a spell completion or trigger item with a prohibited school spell, unless the spell was in the specialist's book. Thus eliminating the "who cares if it requires two spell slots? It's on my spell list, so I'll just get a scroll or wand."
Not perfect, but a better incentive to consider a universalist, but not so crippling that a specialist isn't worth it.
I'm not for doing anything that affects prohibited schools. In my eyes, and I imagine in the eyes of most of my players, prohibited school spells would just never be chosen as spells. Giving them less of a reason to do something they already wouldn't do doesn't really help.
if you really want to empower wizards (i suggest against it), maybe allow universalists to take both arcane bonds at the same time?
Allowing just an extra free spontaneous slot per day seems way too good, and steps on the toes of the sorcerer a LOT (spontaneous casting from most of the spell list, as opposed to just from a few spells known, is incredibly powerful).
But maybe this? The universalist gets to choose either to have both arcane bonds (familiar and item) with both benefits and drawbacks, or to have just the item bond but suffer no penalty for losing the item, or to have just a familiar but that it's abilities is calculated as if two levels higher?
Making wizards more powerful as a class is something I in no way want to do, and I don't want to make universalist overtly stronger than the rest, that defeats the purpose.
I don't think the bonus free slot is really that big of an issue. It is a bit better than the bonus spell slots the specialists get, but consider the following:
A) An evocator is always going to prepare at least a few evocation spells, so the fact that this bonus spell slot is limited to that school isn't a serious limitations. Likewise for the other schools.
B) Specialist wizards ultimately get more free spells slots than the Universalist. They'll have 2 additional slots by 3rd level, but the universalist will always only have the 1 spontaneous slot. The gap increases as levels go up.
C) The Universalist powers aren't as powerful as some of the others, so a slightly more powerful spell slot is somewhat offset (though this is more a matter of opinion).
Frankly, I think this is the best solution so far.
Well, I was considering building a universalist wizard to go into the Mage of the Third Eye PRC since it seems they'd be the best to use the Mage of the Third Eye's abilities.
I think universalists even out mainly due to their not having opposed schools. True one could use opposition research and use an elemental school (like I'm currently playing and will get when I reach the proper level) but that is a feat tax that perhaps that particular wizard doesn't want to deal with.
How about this: Instead of just giving them a spontaneous slot, every time they reach a new spell level, they choose a "bonded spell" of that level that they can cast in a bonus slot. It can be of any school, but once they choose, the choice is set until they level up.
That makes universalists good for players who like the really weird situational spells but don't want to prepare a bunch of things that aren't going to be useful all the time.
Well if you wanted to make them a bit stronger, perhaps you allow them both the Bonded Item and the Familiar. Bonded item would give them the one extra spell of their choosing and is spontaneous. Then they get to keep their familiar which does all of their stuff.
Probably make it a sub-school of universalist. May or may not be over powered, but if you feel it is, you could add some sort of penalty if the familiar dies besides just needing to spend gold.
I don't like the idea of giving them both the familiar and the bonded item. For one I think it's a situation that will either be really powerful or really gimped depending on the exact choices, But fluff-wise, it just seems too... adjustment-y? Like it's a solution that doesn't necessarily fit a Universalist, but is just a quick way to make a weak wizard build stronger.
Fair enough. I was going off of universalist a bit literally I guess. Universalists don't have an opposing school and thus don't have to choose there. I figured then, why have them choose between a bonded item and a familiar? I can see what you mean though.
I don't necessarily think they need fixed, but I'm not a fan of most of their school abilities and I understand that they don't get extra slots.
A question on the "Bonded Spell" is that only one spell of their choice period? Or is it one spell at each level so at level 3, they'd have 3 bonded spells?
No no, it's a single slot per spell level, as the specialist. Here's the breakdown.
Both: Get a bonus spell slot of each spell level.
Specialists: Can prepare any spell of their school in that slot.
Universalist: Upon reaching the class level where they gain that slot, they choose a single spell from their spellbook that they cast as a bonus spell, and cannot change their choice until they reach their next level.
So a 3rd level wizard gets to choose a bonded 1st and 2nd level spell. He chooses Floating Disk and Levitate. When he hits 4th level, he doesn't gain spells of a higher level, but he could swap out Floating Disk for Burning Hands.
Well, why don't we just do what is already there? The thing I liked about the universalist is that one, you can take your elven longsword and use it as a returning projectile weapon, and two, you get free slots for metamagic feats. Why not do more of the same, add more free metamagic slots per day? I mean, that's how one creates multiple but different versions of the same spell.
I would argue that because they already receive an ability that applies metamagic feats, they should be forced into another, especially at 1st level, which is when the other schools start gaining their bonus spell slots. It would also be difficult for a wizard to use a metamagic feat at 1st level since most require an increased spell level slot, when he currently only has 1st level spells.
The Arclord of Nex prestige class gives a lot of love to the Universalist.
If you want to give it an interesting metamagic-related ability, perhaps let it choose either silent or still spell at 1st level and apply that one up to 3/day to spells with no increase in level (just like a rod of metamagic)?
Could allow them a bit of safety under Silence, or to wear some armor at level 1-2.
Wait. how about free feats when the appropriate level is reached for arcane armor training and arcane armor mastery? That'd be really handy! And it's very general.
Or, we could give a few free metamagic feats like Ilja mentions, but instead how about Extend Spell (mage armor and summon monster and the like), or bonus crafting feats?
Wait. how about free feats when the appropriate level is reached for arcane armor training and arcane armor mastery? That'd be really handy! And it's very general.
The feats are actually pretty awful though. Chews up your swift action every turn and you need to trade out for new armor when you get the feats to get the most out of it. You actually have to get a mithril medium armor in order to use medium armor with arcane armor mastery. If you don't want swift actions I guess its okay.
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If you want to make the universalist more attractive, make specialization have a nontrivial cost.
There's an interesting ability granted by the Magician bard archetype:
Expanded Repertoire (Ex): At 2nd level and every four levels thereafter, a magician can add one spell to his spells known from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class. The spell must be of a level he can cast. This ability replaces versatile performance.
Maybe the Universalist could get a similar ability as well, right at 1st level, instead of Hand of the Apprentice.
Maybe give them the Preferred Spell feet from time to time, just because they learn all spells doesn't mean they wont have favourites.
Ok I am totally Necroing the crap out of this thread but honestly I say if you want to level out the specialists, make them all Thalassonian Specialists or "Sin Mages" for those of you using d20pfsrd. This prevents them from casting 2 from 2 schools ( a VERY REAL cost) AND they can just go and dump necro and enchantment. Instead the forbidden schools are set in stone. No ifs, ands, or buts.