| Marthkus |
What is "interacting"?
Can the area effect of silent image be moved on your turn when you concentrate on the spell?
If I use silent image to create spheres of blackness around enemies eyes, can they see? Do they get a save?
If I use major image to light enemies on fire(create fire around them), do they get a save? Do they feel the thermal component of the flames? Are they blinded by the flames? Can they hear over the roar of the flames?
Can a major image talk?
Could 'veiled' creatures have missionary sex even if their base forms lacked the correct pluming do to the touch senses added by veil?
Can you walk on structures in a Mirage Arcana?
If levels went that high:
Can a Simulacrum of a Genie grant its master wishes as they are intended?
Can Shades be used for teleportation, planar binding, and plane shift?
Note: What are the pathfinder society rulings for these? And if they differ from normal games please let me know.
| asthyril |
i suggest you go read the 4 links in this post. it should answer a lot of your questions about illusions. anything not covered there is usually up to the GM.
| Marthkus |
i suggest you go read the 4 links in this post. it should answer a lot of your questions about illusions. anything not covered there is usually up to the GM.
Thanks but that is a 3.5 rules clarification.
| BillyGoat |
asthyril wrote:i suggest you go read the 4 links in this post. it should answer a lot of your questions about illusions. anything not covered there is usually up to the GM.Thanks but that is a 3.5 rules clarification.
Pathfinder is a 3.5 OGL compatible project. Meaning, if they didn't change it, it is still correct.
But, it wouldn't be a very good rules system if it couldn't stand on its own. So, I'll attempt to answer your specific questions, without reference to the 3.5 base material.
What is "interacting"?
Per the dictionary, interacting is when you take an action which brings you into direct sensory contact with what should be there. So touching someone under the effects of "disguise self".
Can the area effect of silent image be moved on your turn when you concentrate on the spell?
When you cast it, you create a visual figment inside the space described in the effect, which itself must be within the range specified. As per the spell description, you can move the image within the space of the effect for free. It doesn't specify that this takes an action, therefore, you can perform it at any time.
However, nothing says you can move the area of the effect within the range of the spell, once cast.
If I use major image to light enemies on fire(create fire around them), do they get a save? Do they feel the thermal component of the flames? Are they blinded by the flames? Can they hear over the roar of the flames?
Per the rules for figments (which major image is), the spell cannot create real effects. As such, they cannot be blinded. They would feel hot, but not burning hot to the point where mechanical effects would apply.
Since the spell is creating the appearance of themselves burning, the illusion is attempting to interact with them. Since Major Image functions as silent image, they get a Will save to disbelieve.
If they failed, I would apply a penalty on perception checks to see/hear beyond the light & sound of the "flames".
See page 210 for rules on figments.
Can a major image talk?
No. See the rules for figments on page 210. Unless specifically permitted, figments cannot produce intelligible speech.
Can you walk on structures in a Mirage Arcana?
No. It's an illusion, it makes you think there's a building there, it doesn't create a building. See the rules for illusions, page 210. Also, see the rules for glamer, specifically, same page. Nothing says "creates the actual structures which the mind of the victim perceives as existing".
As the entire school of magic implies, it creates the "illusion" of the thing, not the thing. As such, there is nothing there for anyone to actually stand on.
Let's say you create the illusion of a bridge over a ravine. Someone attempts to step onto the bridge (interacting with the illusion). They make a will save. If they succeed, they know there's no bridge & a decent GM gives a reflex save to catch themselves at the ledge.
If they fail the save, they step onto the bridge... and through it, into the ravine below. All while still thinking they stepped onto a bridge until suddenly they were falling. Looking over their shoulder, they still see the bridge they should be standing on.
Note: What are the pathfinder society rulings for these? And if they differ from normal games please let me know.
Don't play, so don't know.
EDIT to fix URL.
| BillyGoat |
BillyGoat wrote:As such, they cannot be blinded.Sight is a sense so an illusion can interfere with sight,sound,touch perception. Blindness can't be duplicated, but seeing only black is effective blindness.
Since it's immediately over their head (presumably, to create the "blindness"), they are immediately interacting with it. So they get a saving throw immediately. As a figment, it would remain in their vision as a faint outline, if they succeed.
However, it's still stationary (other than within the area of the effect), so once they move clear, it's gone.
Note, though, that if you're using Silent Image, you have to replicate an "object, creature, or force". At my table "blackness centered on their head" wouldn't constitute an object. Granted, "overturned buckets on their head" would qualify. And that's definitely an illusion they're "interacting" with, so again, they immediately get a save.
EDIT And, bear in mind, that my original response was with regards to the "brightness of an illusory fire" causing the blinded condition. Not blackness or buckets on heads.
| IejirIsk |
illusions, charms, alignment are three very large things that 'mileage will vary'. it kinda depends on DM... sad to say, but its kinda how those tend to work out. unless it causes major strife, going to a higher up (except through gross negligence) probably would not field you much.
you forgot shadows, and someone that fell through an illusory floor would immediately disbelieve (no save required) as they have undeniable proof it is not there. a diabolical person would create a floor, and open a different hole next to it, but...
Best answer, might be just ask the DM how he handles illusions, specifically glamours, figments, shadows (and one more i can never remember...)
| Marthkus |
illusions, charms, alignment are three very large things that 'mileage will vary'. it kinda depends on DM... sad to say, but its kinda how those tend to work out. unless it causes major strife, going to a higher up (except through gross negligence) probably would not field you much.
Best answer, might be just ask the DM how he handles illusions, specifically glamours, figments, shadows (and one more i can never remember...)
I was thinking that PFS would have some standards, otherwise a PFS illusionist power would vary widely from table to table.
| asthyril |
IejirIsk wrote:I was thinking that PFS would have some standards, otherwise a PFS illusionist power would vary widely from table to table.illusions, charms, alignment are three very large things that 'mileage will vary'. it kinda depends on DM... sad to say, but its kinda how those tend to work out. unless it causes major strife, going to a higher up (except through gross negligence) probably would not field you much.
Best answer, might be just ask the DM how he handles illusions, specifically glamours, figments, shadows (and one more i can never remember...)
it does have standards. the game is based on the 3.5 edition of dungeons and dragons, and any rules clarifications (like the ones i posted) are still valid as long as the wording hasn't changed. just because those links are for 3.5 does not mean they are not valid rules clarifications for pathfinder. my local pfs uses those, so should any others.
| Lochmonster |
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| Marthkus |
Marthkus wrote:it does have standards. the game is based on the 3.5 edition of dungeons and dragons, and any rules clarifications (like the ones i posted) are still valid as long as the wording hasn't changed. just because those links are for 3.5 does not mean they are not valid rules clarifications for pathfinder. my local pfs uses those, so should any others.IejirIsk wrote:I was thinking that PFS would have some standards, otherwise a PFS illusionist power would vary widely from table to table.illusions, charms, alignment are three very large things that 'mileage will vary'. it kinda depends on DM... sad to say, but its kinda how those tend to work out. unless it causes major strife, going to a higher up (except through gross negligence) probably would not field you much.
Best answer, might be just ask the DM how he handles illusions, specifically glamours, figments, shadows (and one more i can never remember...)
I really doubt that PFS uses 3.5 material. Atleast it shouldn't be.
| Marthkus |
Marthkus wrote:
Can Shades be used for teleportation, planar binding, and plane shift?
Yes.
There are two very good guides in the "Guide to the Classes" about how to use and what can or cannot be used for both Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration line of spells.
That is very neat.
Howie23
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I was thinking that PFS would have some standards, otherwise a PFS illusionist power would vary widely from table to table.
PFS does not have specific rules for illusions. You may well experience difference from table to table. If that is undesirable, another character concept may be better for you.
| Marthkus |
Marthkus wrote:PFS does not have specific rules for illusions. You may well experience difference from table to table. If that is undesirable, another character concept may be better for you.
I was thinking that PFS would have some standards, otherwise a PFS illusionist power would vary widely from table to table.
That seems like a pretty big hole in the rules. Especially when you consider all the meta-regulation of character wealth, the lack of item crafting, permanent spell rules and the list of everything that is legal. All of which are done to keep things fair from table to table. You would think something as potentially broken/useless as illusions would have their own set of rule clarifications. But if that is not the case, an illusionist makes an interesting character, whose properties change from table to table.