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1. Emerging guns. Gunslinger class is available. Other classes can't without taking levels in gunslinger. None of the armature gunslinger archetypes for other classes are legal
2. Check the additional rules section for gunslinger in pfs, you don't craft basically, you purchase with a deep discount on regular ammo, and alchemical ammo if you have the craft (alchemy) rank.
3. Like two weapon fighting probably, with two one-handed weapons. So a -4/-4 if you have the two-weapon fighting feat. Though you still need both hands to reload, so you'll hit problems in that aspect.
Check out the pepperbox, and wands of reloading hands if you have friendly casters or a reliable use magic device check.
In short: check the guide to organized play, and the additional resources document
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In short: check the guide to organized play, and the additional resources document
Links to these two documents, with which every new PFS player should familiarize himself:
PFS Guide to Organized Play (free download from Paizo store)
Additional Resources List You're looking for the info on Gunslingers and the gunsmithing feat, from Ultimate Combat, near the bottom of the list, where it says:
Gunslinger: A gunslinger's starting gun (granted by the gunsmith class feature) is worth 22 gp if sold (the average of 4d10).
A gunslinger begins each scenario with her Wisdom modifier in grit (or her maximum grit if she has the Extra Grit feat). Any additional grit earned above her starting grit does not carry over past the scenario's conclusion.
The Daring Act optional rule is not used in the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign.
Gunsmithing does not grant the ability to craft firearms, ammunition, or black powder. Rather, it allows the purchase of bullets, pellets, black powder, and alchemical cartridges (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) at the listed reduced price, but does not grant a discount on the purchase of any firearm. Resold items gained through this feat are worth half the actual cost paid, not half the regular market value for the item. No PC can purchase a gun without this feat, even if they possess the Amateur Gunslinger or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feats.
Equipment: No firearm sized Large or larger is available for purchase. The double hackbut and culverin on Table 3–4 and advanced firearms on Table 3–5 and are not permitted in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. No character may purchase a firearm unless she possesses the Gunsmithing feat and firearms are never considered Always Available; a character must possess enough Fame to purchase any firearm not found on a Chronicle sheet or granted by a class feature. All ammunition except metal cartridges may be purchased.
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The pepperbox costs 3000 gp. Does that mean I'd need 13 fame points before I could purchase one?
That's correct. However, note that you might want to buy a masterwork version (if you're planning on having it magically enhanced later); a masterwork pepperbox pistol would cost 3150, and thus could not be purchased until you reach 18 fame.
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Some advice on gunslingers.
-Read up and be aware of the reload rules. It makes it easier on the GM if you play fair with it. Not all GMs are happy with gunslingers. Also be up and honest about misfires (get a scroll of make whole and/or a mending spell for your friendly casters to help you out with in case)
-Get the Artisan Shop vanity as soon as you can. Craft (Firearms) as a day job roll, PLUS a 5% discount on ammo and non-magical guns is good.
-Keep track of your ammo.
-Have fun.. it's a blast. :D
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The pepperbox costs 3000 gp. Does that mean I'd need 13 fame points before I could purchase one?That's correct. However, note that you might want to buy a masterwork version (if you're planning on having it magically enhanced later); a masterwork pepperbox pistol would cost 3150, and thus could not be purchased until you reach 18 fame.
Umm. Since it is a weapon, wouldn't be 3,300 gp for a masterwork pepperbox?
150 is the cost to masterwork armor and shields, not weapons.
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Note that a pepper box still requires a free hand to rotate the barrel so it does not allow you to use it with two-weapon fighting any better than any other gun. The only ways i am aware of to use two-weapon fighting with guns in PFS is to get a third hand (couple ways of doing it) or get QuickDraw and carry a lot of guns.
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It's just too bad that I have to wait 'til I have 18 fame to get it, so that'll put me at about Level 3 when I can finally grab one.
The earliest you'll hit 18 Fame is on your 9th adventure (assuming you play all one-round scenarios, rather than adapted modules), which will almost undoubtedly be the adventure that gets you to 4th level.
I'm planning on using some paper cartridges to do reloading, so would it be better to take point-blank shot or rapid reload as a level 1 feat?
My wife plays a human gunslinger (pistolero). The feat she really wanted was Precise Shot (so she wasn't always suffering the -4 penalty for shooting into melee), but the fact that she's going against touch AC in the first 20' made it a little less painful to not have that feat right away. So, she started out with Rapid Reload and Point Blank Shot, then went with Precise Shot at 3rd level.
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Whoops. I knew I'd be three levels up, but I didn't add in my first level. Yeah, so level four would be where I get my first masterwork pepperbox. Would my starter gun be good enough to keep until then?
I don't see why not. You can spend 300 gp to upgrade that starter gun from its "battered / broken" condition to "masterwork" (and, really, that'll be something you'll do after your very first adventure). After that, you can, if you want, spend 2K (once you have it) on upgrading that pistol to +1 magic, or spend your money on other items (or save it up for the pepperbox).
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So Masterwork Weapon basically means that you can upgrade it and make it +1 and whatnot, and the weapon itself basically has no bonuses at that point, right?
Yes to the "it can be upgraded", but a masterwork weapon has a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls (though it gives no bonus on damage rolls). Upgrading a weapon from masterwork to +1 has two benefits:
- It gives +1 to damage rolls (the +1 magical enhancement to your attack rolls doesn't stack with the +1 enhancement bonus from it being a masterwork weapon)
- It's now a magic weapon, which means that it will (a) bypass the damage resistance of creatures with "DR x/magic", and (b) can damage incorporeal creatures -- non-magical weapons cannot damage incorporeal creatures at all, while magical weapons only suffer the 50% reduction in damage dealt.
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Yeah, but that requires a level 3 caster. Is it a commonly learned spell? And can others cast the spell on items you carry?
You can have an NPC cast it on the item.
However, note that PFS limits you to having one item with Masterwork Transformation cast upon it -- you can have any number of masterwork items, but only one which has become masterwork via that spell.
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Also, I was reading up the reload rules on a pepperbox. I need to use one cartridge per barrel according to the pathfinder SRD. Does that mean that I need to use six standard actions to reload my pepperbox, or is it just one standard action to reload the whole thing, but expend six cartridges in the process?
Yes, you are right that would be six standard actions.
You should check out
Pistol, Double-Barreled: This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as a separate action, or both can be shot at once with the same action. If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot.
and
Alchemical Cartridges: An alchemical cartridge is a prepared bundle of black powder with a bullet or pellets, sometimes with more exotic material added, which is then wrapped in paper or cloth and sealed with beeswax, lard, or tallow. There are many types of alchemical cartridges, the simplest being the paper cartridge—a simple mix of black powder and either pellets or a bullet. Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier, reducing the time to load a firearm by one step (a full-round action becomes a standard action, a standard action becomes a move action, and a move action becomes a free action), but they tend to be unstable. The misfire value of a weapon firing an alchemical cartridge increases as listed in each entry.
add in Rapid Reload
Rapid Reload (Combat)
Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, heavy) or a single type of one-handed or two-handed firearm that you are proficient with. You can reload such a weapon quickly.
Prerequisites: Weapon Proficiency (crossbow type chosen) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm).
Benefit: The time required for you to reload your chosen type of weapon is reduced to a free action (for a hand or light crossbow), a move action (for heavy crossbow or one-handed firearm), or a standard action (two-handed firearm). Reloading a crossbow or firearm still provokes attacks of opportunity.
If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.
Normal: A character without this feat needs a move action to reload a hand or light crossbow, a standard action to reload a one-handed firearm, or a full-round action to load a heavy crossbow or a two-handed firearm.
Special: You can gain Rapid Reload multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of crossbow or a new type of firearm.
Now you can fire 2 shots as a standard action, and reload as a free action. The -4 to each shot is not going to affect you as bad as a gunslinger. The touch AC on most bad guys is very very low.
Click on my name and you can see the feats that I have been using. I don't miss unless I roll a 1 or 2. Crit for 68 Min damage and 96 max.
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Wow. With that in mind, maybe I should look into a masterwork double pistol. I liked the idea of a pepperbox because it could hold 6 rounds, but with rapid reload (double-barreled pistol) and cartridges, reloading becomes a non-issue. And it'll allow me to attack with two bullets in one turn long before I could attack multiple times with a pepperbox. And I could get it sooner at only 13 fame required.
That's really informative. Thanks!
I have a Gunslinger that went this route. The biggest problem is misfiring. A full round attack with Rapid Shot and BAB +6/+1 nets you something around a 62% chance of having a misfire which immediately ends the routine for 2 rounds. Reliable can cut that down to about 47%. My solution was to go with Mysterious Stranger as Stranger's Fortune allows you to ignore a limited number of misfires (which means you can hit even if you roll a 2 or 3).
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Just remember there's a hefty -4 penalty for firing both barrels at once...Wow. With that in mind, maybe I should look into a masterwork double pistol. I liked the idea of a pepperbox because it could hold 6 rounds, but with rapid reload (double-barreled pistol) and cartridges, reloading becomes a non-issue. And it'll allow me to attack with two bullets in one turn long before I could attack multiple times with a pepperbox. And I could get it sooner at only 13 fame required.
That's really informative. Thanks!
Plus -2 for Rapidshot
Plus -1 to -4 for Deadly AimPlus -4 fequently for cover until you get Improve Precise Shot (frequency is effected by how willing you are to put yourself in harm's way)
Plus -4 for firing into melee if you don't have Precise Shot.
My Gunslinger usually nets only around a +5 to hit. Of course, when you are only trying to hit an AC of 9 or 10 then that isn't a huge problem.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I'll add one more thing, many GMs will limit how many free actions you can take for reloading. There is no set number and it is up to the individual GMs to adjudicate how many he/she will allow in her game. This can limit how well your gunslinger can perform in combat.
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One thing, on initial guns:
Pistol only targets touch AC out to 20'
Musket targets touch AC out to 40'
Guess which weapon lets you attack an enemy Cleric's touch AC without being inside his Channel Negative envelope?
This can be important if you wind up playing up.
I almost lost my ginslinger to that, once. "Hi, Will save for half damage. You make it. That's 9 points of damage." Bad when you are 1st level playing up, since that was all but one hit point for that PC at that time.
I spent the rest of that encounter, after retreating to get healed, firing from maximum range, instead of going for the Point Blank Shot bonus.
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One thing, on initial guns:
Pistol only targets touch AC out to 20'
Musket targets touch AC out to 40'Guess which weapon lets you attack an enemy Cleric's touch AC without being inside his Channel Negative envelope?
This can be important if you wind up playing up.
I almost lost my ginslinger to that, once. "Hi, Will save for half damage. You make it. That's 9 points of damage." Bad when you are 1st level playing up, since that was all but one hit point for that PC at that time.
I spent the rest of that encounter, after retreating to get healed, firing from maximum range, instead of going for the Point Blank Shot bonus.
Which is why putting Distance on your pistol is a great idea. Albeit you can't afford that until mid levels.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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I have a Gunslinger that went this route. The biggest problem is misfiring. A full round attack with Rapid Shot and BAB +6/+1 nets you something around a 62% chance of having a misfire which immediately ends the routine for 2 rounds. Reliable can cut that down to about 47%. My solution was to go with Mysterious Stranger as Stranger's Fortune allows you to ignore a limited number of misfires (which means you can hit even if you roll a 2 or 3).Wow. With that in mind, maybe I should look into a masterwork double pistol. I liked the idea of a pepperbox because it could hold 6 rounds, but with rapid reload (double-barreled pistol) and cartridges, reloading becomes a non-issue. And it'll allow me to attack with two bullets in one turn long before I could attack multiple times with a pepperbox. And I could get it sooner at only 13 fame required.
That's really informative. Thanks!
Each Slate Spider gives you a minute per day of no misfires. They're 10k each, so it's an investment, but can definately pay off.
One other thing with the spiders that I've started doing. Any day that there's no shooting, last thing in the day is to use the spider anyway. That way your next shot, even days later, will still have no misfire chance. Saved my shot last game.
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Each Slate Spider gives you a minute per day of no misfires. They're 10k each, so it's an investment, but can definately pay off.One other thing with the spiders that I've started doing. Any day that there's no shooting, last thing in the day is to use the spider anyway. That way your next shot, even days later, will still have no misfire chance. Saved my shot last game.
The problem with Slate Spiders is that, depending on DM interpretation, you may need one Slate Spider per barrel rather than per gun. And that will translate into table variants in PFS.
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@Trollbill
The issue with Mysterious Stranger is that you give up
Quick Clear (Ex): At 1st level, as a standard action, the gunslinger can remove the broken condition from a single firearm she is currently wielding, as long as that condition was gained by a firearm misfire. The gunslinger must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. Alternatively, if the gunslinger spends 1 grit point to perform this deed, she can perform quick clear as a move-equivalent action instead of a standard action.
Thats huge. Also the gunslinger has to play more with positioning then most other classes.
There are other ways to get the missfire chance down.
Load normal ammo for first shots in battle
Lucky Weapon
Reliable Weapon
Slate Spider
@Eric
Very Very True. As long as you are not going gang busters on the double barrel, reloading 3 to 4 shots a round should not be an issue with most GM's. Its when people take advantage of the double shot when it gets nuts. I use "Both Barrels" only after a move action or as an AoO. Never as part of a full round action.
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How does someone deal with the double misfire roll when you are firing both barrels of a double barrel weapon? doesn't it blow up?
I mean, both shots require "to hit" rolls, which both go off at the same time. If one is a mis-fire and the other a hit (even a crit) I think the hit would take place. And if both Crit, I would think you have two crits. So, with two rolls of "1" wouldn't it be two mis-fires (and a blow up)?
Please realize that I am not trying to "start something", just wondering how players are handleing what seems to me would happen once in every 400 double shots. Is this addressed in the rules for double barrel weapons somewhere?
Thank you for your time.
Unlike most multiple attacks in Pathfinder, if you fire both barrels from a double barrel weapon, the attacks are simultaneous. In order for a gun to blow up on a misfire it must have the broken condition. If both misfires are simultaneous than the gun does not have the broken condition at the time either shot is fired.
Similarly, I don't see why a simultaneous misfire from one barrel would have an effect on the other barrel. In fact, I have had some DMs tell me that if one of my barrels misfires I can still use the other barrel without penalty. I have graciously declined such rulings as I do not believe that is how it works.
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@Trollbill
The issue with Mysterious Stranger is that you give up
Quick Clear (Ex): At 1st level, as a standard action, the gunslinger can remove the broken condition from a single firearm she is currently wielding, as long as that condition was gained by a firearm misfire. The gunslinger must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. Alternatively, if the gunslinger spends 1 grit point to perform this deed, she can perform quick clear as a move-equivalent action instead of a standard action.
Yup. Not having Quick Clear is a major pain for the Mysterious Stranger until he hits 5th level. The Mysterious Stanger makes up for that by having a higher damage output than other Gunslingers prior to 5th level. (and being good at social skills has proven invaluable out of combat).
My solution was to carry a bow at low levels and then multiple guns later on as backup. I still regularly pull out my Dragon Pistol as it works well against swarms, ignores concealment and can deal non-lethal damage.
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So, for you, a double misfire is just a misfire?
It's still two misfires. That is I would still have to spend two uses of my Stranger's Fortune in order for my gun not to receive the broken condition. But since both misfires are simultaneous the effect is a broken gun, not an exploded one.
The rules don't call out double barrel weapons specifically regarding misfires. It is just, in my opinion, a common sense interpretation of the rules. Given that alternative would make using double barrel weapons an absurdly expensive proposition it makes even more sense.
Double broken is not a condition recognized by the rules. Either a weapon is broken or it isn't.
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I too have been playing the way that Trollbill explained. The attack is the same action. It seems to be the "norm" with out a offical response on how we should be reading/playing it. And yes you should be removing the broken condition from both barrels.
I don't think you have to repair both barrels as it is the gun that receives the broken condition on a misfire, not just the barrel that misfired. That means you should only have to repair it once but it also means any additional shots you take after the misfire are with a broken weapon regardless of which barrel you are shooting. At least, that is the way I see it by the rules.
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I have been removing the condition from both barrels, not just the weapon. I would rather play it so each barerel is broken vs the gun its self. A GM could rule that because I am treating the weapon as being broken only once on a double misfire that the second barrel misfire would explode my gun.
The best advice is to work it out with the GM before you roll at the table. See how they want treat double misfire's.
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I have been removing the condition from both barrels, not just the weapon. I would rather play it so each barerel is broken vs the gun its self. A GM could rule that because I am treating the weapon as being broken only once on a double misfire that the second barrel misfire would explode my gun.
The best advice is to work it out with the GM before you roll at the table. See how they want treat double misfire's.
Fortunatly, this is mostly moot for my gunslinger since I got Stranger's Fortune.