Archpaladin Zousha
|
I've been reading up on the Kellids quite a bit recently, especially in preparation for stuff like Kingmaker, Reign of Winter and Wrath of the Righteous, which all happen in their neighborhood.
But I'm finding it difficult to get a bead on the Kellid aesthetic. Are they Celtic or Cro-Magnon? The write-up of Sarkoris in Lost Empires seems to indicate the former, with a pantheon of many gods and being the source of the Green Faith that many druids practice, along with things like barrows and standing stones. But all the artwork I see depicts them more like slightly civilized cavemen, riding mammoths in the icy north, dressed in hides and wielding bone weapons.
So...what ARE the Kellids supposed to be like? The reason I ask is because I was told that they're the closest analogue to a Briton-like people in Golarion, and if I wanted to play some sort of Romano-British warlord type figure, I should look to them. But nothing I've seen outside of Lost Empires seems to indicate that that's a kind of archetype the Kellids cater to. That they're better suited to fitting archetypes of hunter-gatherer tribes during the Ice Age and before the dawn of civilization.
Am I right? Am I wrong? Am I being racist by claiming the Kellids appear too "primitive" for my role-playing tastes?
| Quandary |
I always saw them as some Eurasian horde people like Scythians or something. Or you could say proto-Celtic, or Indo-European.
I think saying Cro-Magnon is going to far, but sometimes-nomadic tribes inhabiting 'Eurasian' steppe might not appear too different.
Or put it this way, if Conan was in Golarion, he would probably be a Kellid.
But they vary based on where they live. The Mammoth Lords are probably the most primitive, along with some others.
In Brevoy and Iobaria, they've apparently mixed a good amount with Ulfen,
and the cultural result is apparently 'Slavic/Russian' (similar to source of the Russian state).
This would be strongly influencing nearby Kellids, e.g. in the River Kingdoms.
More 'primitive' groups could be seen as matching pre-Christian Slavic groups and other groups inhabiting now-Russia.
There's a pretty easy continuity between that, proto-Celtic groups, etc.
Sarkoris seems like it would fit in somewhere around there...
In other areas further south, Kellids seem pretty much integrated into the Taldor-centric civilization there, albeit often in the lower classes.
SO I don't think that 'Kellid' is really THE most important distinction with regards to self-identity and cultural traits, tribal and national affiliations seem much more important. But sure, the idea of 'Kellid' implies a move toward the savage barbarian horizon, vs. Taldor/Osirion/etc. That said, there's alot of diversity within Kellids, and even those without some 'industrial society' may be succesful rich traders, etc. They aren't GENERALLY presented as some isolate group with no contact or familiarity with more modern society (though such tribes could certainly exist), so I would just put them as a marginal people of the north, who has contact with, trades with other societies, and so who would be familiar with metal (and possibly even work it themself), even if the higher civilizations undoubtedly look down on them. If this isn't quite precise or specific... well, I suspect that Paizo's intent (or reality, after multiple authors, etc) may not be THAT MUCH more specific here.
Have you checked out People of the North?
I don't think it really gives an 'encyclopedic' coverage of Kellids, as much as just focusing on the Mammoth Lords (along with the rest of NW Avistan, as opposed to NE... Paizo pretty much acknowledges covering just the NW region in the product discussion thread, not including Brevoy, Sarkoris, Iobaria, etc), so that isn't going to tell you about other Kellids, but it still could be useful especially if the Mammoth Lords are your focus... Personally, I think they could have made a 32 page product on "The Kellid Peoples"...
Hope that helps some.
thistledown
|
I've also tried to pull up info on Kellids, with little luck. Started looking back in august and was very disapointed that People of the North kept getting delayed and then only had 2 pictures of Kellids in it.
From my read of the world guide / humans of Golarion, etc. they are celts. But not the woad covered british celts - these are more like the celtic peoples that caesar was fighting in germania. Go watch the opening scenes of Gladiator or the first few episodes of Rome.
Or... (I can't belive I'm saying this), the barbarians from the Capitol One credit card comercials.
I do not see Conan among them - he would be a Shoanti. They are the 'Big guy topless barbarian' race with a bit of native american mixed in.
They are also not vikings - that's the Ulfen.
They are not the inuit or the tribal peoples of northern russia - that's the Erutaki and the Varki.
It seems the most culturally Kellid area was Sarkoris, but that's the worldwound now. They are also big in Numeria - running the land of giant mechanical monsters.
Archpaladin Zousha
|
Yes, I have purchased People of the North. That's why I have these questions in the first place. First Lost Empires gave me a pseudo-Celtic image, then People of the North gave me a more Cro-Magnon image.
I'm looking more for someone like Arthur from Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles. Derfel would have been an Ulfen.
Archpaladin Zousha
|
| Quandary |
Like I wrote, plenty of Kellids have 'integrated' to or adopted southern Taldan culture.
From Nirmathas to Molthune to Razmiran to Druma to the River Kingdoms to Mendev to Galt,
it seems more than reasonable for somebody's family and traditions to be predominantly Kellid,
while having many material as well as cultural aspects of their life be on par with Taldan culture.
Likewise the people of Brevoy seem primarily based on a fusion of Kellid and Ulfens, but with Taldan influence as well.
(Iobaria seems strongly related to Brevoy, but with much less or no Taldan influence)
Other than that, there isn't really any more ethnicities we know of in Avistan, so that's the closest to that ideal as you'll get IMHO.
| Mojorat |
Its important to realize that pre-printing press an ethnic group that covers a wide area probly has alot of variations in its behaviour. The Kellids are at their heart a mixture of the Celts and germanic tribes with the fantasy Cimmerian's thrown in. In areas where one of the Golarian empires Conuered then re-tracted you get more civilized Kellid.
Basically, You can view one Kellid as a post roman era german townsman. Or He can also be a Hun, or any other variation of any of the Rl cultures i suggested above.
| Quandary |
And if the predominant socio/political set-up in all the major Kellid-predominant nations just isn't what you're aiming for, use the River Kingdoms. I can't see how you would be violating anything in Canon to posit that there is some Kingdom of predominant Kellid heritage which has arrived to just the cultural place you want it to. No other Kellid group or anybody else would find that particularly weird given the range of cultures Kellids comprise, and it's pretty easy to have SEVERAL different River Kingdoms with similar cultures.
I'm not saying that I don't think there aren't any places outside of the River Kingdoms which couldn't resemble the (posted) desired imagery (Brevoy, Mendev, Razmiran, and Nirmathas all seem prime prospects), but the River Kingdoms seem like the ultimate option if those don't do for some reason. Brevoy does seem very similar to the British Isles dynamic, albeit with Russian overtones: mix of 'indigenous' Kellid with Ulfen and Taldan newcomers, similar to Viking and Roman influence in Britain. Then again, we see 'Celto-British' overtones widespread thru Avistan via Fey, so the fact that Paizo is putting Pseudo-Russian names on NPCs isn't really a decisive factor IMHO. Mendev is more or less the same, but with more Taldan influence and less Ulfen. Especially if you are going for 'Romano-British warlord', the existence of other 'less civilized' groups of Kellids in the near region seems the perfect analogue for e.g. Picts, Irish. Nirmathas/Molthune seems apt to have parallels to the Romano-British dynamic as well. Paizo just doesn't seem to go into ethnological detail on the population of every country, besides what language they speak (which isn't directly related to the heritage of the population), but all these countries should have a signifigant Kellid element, albeit expressed in different ways. Even Numeria and the remnants of Sarkoris can work, the strongest info on them suggests more primitivity, but that is really their 'classic' historical development, in the current moment it's rather likely for many of the people to have adopted more 'civilized' modes to some extent.
Or there's always giving up on fitting it into Golarion Canon, but I don't think that's necessary with the above options.
Fundamentally, every group in Golarion isn't meant to map 1:1 to a real Earth historical ethnic group or state,
so unless there's just a clear-cut parallel (the closest parallels often end up screwing with some detail anyways),
you just have to go with the closest match... I think there's some good options there to choose from.
| Quandary |
Mendev has the 'pagan' Kellid base population (similar to Sarkoris, or Iobaria) with the 'Crusader' ruling class (and camp followers, etc) coming from many cultures but predominantly Taldan/Chelaxian.
I asked James Jacobs some questions about this topic, and here is what he had to say:
Kellids were the indiginous people of central Avistan; before the Armies of Exploration from Taldor came along, Kellids pretty much lived from the Realm of the Mammoth Lords to Brevoy (east-west) and on down south of Lake Enkarthan. Taldor pushed them back and scattered them and in some cases cut them off from the rest of their people. As a result, the Kellids have lost a lot of their culture and/or have adapted/adjusted over the last 3 to 4 thousand years.
The Kellids themselves don't really map to any one real-world culture. They have touches of Germanic and Pict and Slavic and more in them, but aren't really one specific "real-world ethnicity." In fact, their primary inspiration was the writings of Robert E. Howard—the Kellids are most based on the Cimmerian ethnicity from Howard's writings... but even then it's not a perfect match.
I personally think the Kellid references could be expanded to cultures like Scythians which inhabited/ruled areas like Ukraine and Kazakhstan previous to the expansion of Slavic (and Mongol/Turkic) tribes there, but I don't see that so much conflicting with, as complementing what James wrote.
And like I wrote before, Kellids are really so diverse culturally and politically and materially, that basically no Kellid is going to exclusively identifiy AS Kellid, they would favor the nation/tribe/settlement they have allegiance to, and may likely feel closer to some non-Kellids than un-related groups of Kellids who are culturally distinct. That said, Hallit does comprise a mutually intelligible language. So over-all, I think as an ethnicity it is similar to 'Mwangi'. ...Although for that matter, if you take all the nations and cultures which now speak Common/Taldane/Chelaxian, there is probably an equally broad range of variation.
Gnoll Bard
|
The relative uniformity of current Kellid culture might have to do with how much of their lands they've lost. Once upon a time they were the dominant population pretty much everywhere in Avistan north of the Inner Sea coast, excepting the Hold of Belkzen, the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, Varisia, and possibly Nidal. The inhabitants of Cheliax and Andoran prior to the Taldan conquests might have been related as well, but that's not entirely clear.
As far as I can tell, they have since been either driven out of those lands (as in Ustalav) or pretty thoroughly assimilated into Chelaxian and Taldan culture. Hallit is still spoken in some places, but there doesn't really seem to be a major cultural divide in places like Galt and the River Kingdoms.
Nowadays, the Lands of the Mammoth Lords and Numeria are about the only places that have distinctively Kellid cultures. Even the "natives" of Mendev and Brevoy have been referred to as Iobarians, meaning that they're mostly of Ulfen descent. The two remaining Kellid countries contain a diverse array of independent tribes, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they would have a lot of cultural traits in common.
If anything, the Kellid make me think of the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of Europe and their Basque descendents. In most places their culture has been totally absorbed by those of various immigrant people, leaving only relatively small populations in remote areas who remember any of the traditions of "old Avistan".
| The Block Knight |
The big issue at play here that I think throws some people off is the conflation of ethnicity and nationality. Not all Kellids are the same, just as not all white people or African people are the same.
Kellids are an ethnicity which has major tones and hints of Pictish, Celtic, Germanic, and Slavic origin. With a dash of Cimmerian.
The "primitive" vibe happens to come from a specific Nationality of Kellids that hail from the Realm of the Mammoth Lords. But it's doubtful that many of the Kellids in Numeria or Ustalav ride mammoths. Some may but not many, certainly not the majority.
Same as with Ulfen. The Ulfen people are the predominate ethnicity in the Land of the Linnorm Kings, Irrisen, and Iobaria but each of those three nations has vastly different Ulfen culture. There are similarities but many more differences.
Side-note: just because the Kellid of the Realm of the Mammoth Lords choose to ride mammoths and keep to a predominantly hunter-gatherer lifestyle doesn't mean they have the cultural primitiveness of Cro-Magnon or cavemen. I mean, honestly, if people had the opportunity to still ride around on woolly mammoths, wouldn't you? ;)
| Quandary |
People of the North is really only covering Kellids in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords.
It should probably be titled "People of the North, Volume 1", it really only covers the NW corner of Avistan.
Sarkoris, Numeria, Mendev, Brevoy, Iobaria, and eventually the rest of Northern Casmaron could be another 2 books.
And that doesn't even get into Kellid peoples further South...
| nighttree |
I tend to think of the Ulfen as Iron age Anglo-saxon "ish"(Germanic).
And the "cultural" Kellid as bronze age Proto-Celt "ish".
Sythian and Cimmerian would also fit this cultural style.
Keep in mind however, there are plenty of other cultures that are biologically descended from the Kellid, but have changed culturally into something else (Ustalav for example).
Definatly have no interest in the Cro magnon or neanderthal trope.
| Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal |
Keep in mind however, there are plenty of other cultures that are biologically descended from the Kellid, but have changed culturally into something else (Ustalav for example).
Ustalav is actually majority Ethnic Varisan now & has been for as long as it has been called Ustalav, although the Kellids definitely qualify for 'backwoods strangefolk'
| Quandary |
Irnk is right about Ustalav... Since the Shoanti had some presence in Belkzen, perhaps they helped the Varisians expel Kellids who resisted their settlement of the area?
I always have thought it's pretty wierd that the Varisians who STAYED IN PLACE in Varisia (where they previously were the servant caste of Thassilon) are represented as nomadic gypsies, while the ones who moved elsewhere (to Ustalav) are the ones who end up fulfilling all the roles of settled civilization (if ignorant, fearful, etc). Of course, there are also nomadic gypsy type Varisians travelling elsewhere in Avistan and beyond, but it still seems ironic...
I guess it can be chalked up to the ones who stayed in Varisia who don't live like nomadic gypsies, but are settled tradesfolk and farmers, ended up integrating more into the Chelish-centric culture which settled Varisia, and so only the nomadic gypsies are strongly identified as Varisian, even though others may have just as much Varisian blood. Or something like that.
Gnoll Bard
|
I'm afraid you're misunderstanding the Varisians there. Prior to the Chelish colonization of Varisia, there were no cities in Varisia at all; Varisians had traditional gathering-places, like the areas that would become Magnimar and Sandpoint, but they didn't settle down and set up permanent towns or farms. It's only relatively recently that some of them have been attracted to city life in the Chelaxian colonies of Magnimar and Korvosa.
The majority of Varisians may travel within the former borders of Thassilon, but that doesn't make them any less nomads, and as you mentioned, many of them range quite far outside Varisia. The Varisians in Ustalav, on the other hand, are unique among their people for having settled down and built cities of their own.
| Quandary |
I was starting from the historical point when they were the servant class of Thassilon, which seems incompatable with being nomadic gypsies.
There were certainly Thassilonian cities at one point.
I suppose when Thassilon broke down, society broke down, and there wasn't any stable support for settled life, perhaps clashes with the Shoanti, etc...
The Thassilonians were also served by the indigenous humans, whom they divided into two castes: the militia and the providers. The militia were trained in martial techniques to serve in the nation's armies, while the providers worked as farmers, craftspeople, miners, and mystics. ...The provider caste transformed into what are known today as Varisians... [who] took on a more nomadic lifestyle.
For the mystics, that makes sense. Anybody else who has a productive job? Not really.
I guess it may be down to most of the productive provider class ended up moving to Ustalav, and the mystic class and some of the more chaotic, 'marginal' Varisian stayed behind. That actually seems like a good explanation to me, but I haven't seen that stated anywhere.There is the (presumably) Varisian horsemen of the Velashu uplands, and you could take them to be more emblematic of how all Varisians in Varisia lived (after collapse of Thassilon) prior to Chelish colonization... Most Varisians leaving to Ustalav, and only mystics and cattle herders and bandits staying behind to live a nomadic existence without the vulnerability to Shoanti/other raiders that farms and towns would have. But the gypsy lifestyle only makes sense in the context of other people being settled which you can find trade niches with, etc. That leaves the 'nomadic gypsy lifestyle' (as opposed to nomadic cattle herders) to be a result of Chelish colonization, which is interesting but also something I haven't seen stated anywhere...???
[/threadjack]
| The Block Knight |
Apologies for continuing the threadjack, but I always figured the reason the Varisians and Shoanti became nomadic after Earthfall was because of the giants.
Without the Runelords and their apprentices around, there was no one to maintain control of the giant armies. So you now had roving bands of giants that could do whatever the heck they wanted. It would be suicide for the remaining humans in the region to stay in the Thassilonian cities so they fled into the wilderness. Then, there was no point in trying to build new settlements because it would only be a matter of time before a tribe of giants stumbled across it and razed it to the ground. Better to stay on the move and keep one step ahead of the giants.
William Ronald
|
Apologies for continuing the threadjack, but I always figured the reason the Varisians and Shoanti became nomadic after Earthfall was because of the giants.
Without the Runelords and their apprentices around, there was no one to maintain control of the giant armies. So you now had roving bands of giants that could do whatever the heck they wanted. It would be suicide for the remaining humans in the region to stay in the Thassilonian cities so they fled into the wilderness. Then, there was no point in trying to build new settlements because it would only be a matter of time before a tribe of giants stumbled across it and razed it to the ground. Better to stay on the move and keep one step ahead of the giants.
Add to that the environmental devastation of Earthfall, similar to a nuclear winter, and you would likely have people pursuing food animals such as deer and cattle.
Muser
|
From my read of the world guide / humans of Golarion, etc. they are celts. But not the woad covered british celts - these are more like the celtic peoples that caesar was fighting in germania. Go watch the opening scenes of Gladiator or the first few episodes of Rome.Or... (I can't belive I'm saying this), the barbarians from the Capitol One credit card comercials.
I do not see Conan among them - he would be a Shoanti. They are the 'Big guy topless barbarian' race with a bit of native american mixed in.
They are not the inuit or the tribal peoples of northern russia - that's the Erutaki and the Varki.
I just want to clear a few things here:
Ceasar was not fighting Celtic peoples in Germania. Yes, a few tribes had some intermingling and many groups moved around during that time, but those tribes were Gothic - Germanic in fact - and were a of a different ethnic stock. Ceaser fought Helvetic tribes, Aedui and Arverni along with Celtic Britons, but left fighting the northern tribes of Europe to later Emperors, like Trajan.
If we skip ahead about a century, the tribes Aurelius was conquering were indeed Germanic and those are the ones Ridley Scott portrayed in his intro scenes. However, the Germanics of that time were anything but screaming hordes of barbarians. They had cavalry, arms and armor and, most importantly, culture. Scott's vision needed screaming barbarians and that it had, but it was just as much of a fantastic embellishment as the size of his Rome's cityscape or, for instance, the landing crafts used in his Robin Hood movie. He trusts in the Rule of Cool. That's why his barbarians are massive Warhammer brutes who yell the war chant from the movie Zulu and that's why his legionnaires use Hellenic phalangitai weaponry. Hollywood, you know?
About, Conan, well, James Jacobs disagrees.
The Varki are not ment to be Russian tribes, they instead are a mix of Kellid, Ulfen, Erutaki and others and represent the Sami of real world, who have just about nothing to do with Russians. They drink just as hard and party even harder, but slavic they are not. :D
| Eric Hinkle |
The Varki are not ment to be Russian tribes, they instead are a mix of Kellid, Ulfen, Erutaki and others and represent the Sami of real world, who have just about nothing to do with Russians. They drink just as hard and party even harder, but slavic they are not. :D
So, Finno-Ugrian like the Mordva and Muroma?
And my own take on Kellid was that they were sorta pseudo-Celtic (Kellid Gallowglasses, anyone?), with the Ulfen as the Teutons/Norse and the Varisians as Slavs.
thistledown
|
That's what I get for trying to remember things. The Samoyedic people are who I was thinking of as northern russians. But the Fenno-Ugrians works too.
Looks like I had my timelines and hollywoodisms wrong then. The hollywood depiction then, is how I see the Kellids.
I see the Jacobs input after my post, yes. I don't know anything about the Cimmarians in general, but have seen the original Conan. Aside from their shamans, everything about the Shoanti screams Conan to me.
| Quandary |
Varisians are supposed to have roots or some connection to Vudra, i.e. Golarion India, as real-world Gypsies came from India.
(albeit in Golarion they have a whole country nearly to themselves, Ustalav, and were formerly the worker caste of Thassilon for millenia)
Ustalav otherwise could be compared to Gothic Romania in theme, although Gypsies are a minority there not the main population
(Romanians are not Slavic although they are adjacent to many Slavic countries).
The Varki are supposed to have some Varisian in them too, interestingly.
| sunbeam |
I don't know what is written about them in some of the products people have mentioned.
But my vision of the Kellids is that it is kind of a ... pre-civilization culture.
I can see them as able to make metal weapons, but not armor. They might have metal armor that was made by someone else, but they only make leather and hide armors. Herding, and small scale farming. Government is basically tribal, no democracy, no aristocracy. If they have any nationwide government it might be some kind of temporary warlord or the like.
I don't see them as being opposed to magic, but I'd expect more sorcerers, oracles, and druids than clerics and wizards.
I think if I used them in a game I'd come up with some reason why they have not "progressed" to the level of other civilizations they are exposed to. Then too I might just make the Mammoth Lord Kellids like this.
Aberrant Templar
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I do not see Conan among them - he would be a Shoanti. They are the 'Big guy topless barbarian' race with a bit of native american mixed in.
I totally agree with you that Shoanti are a better Cimmarians.
I'm reading "Bran Mak Morn, the Last King" right now and everything about the Kellid (especially the shamanism, the native american influences and the corruption from the Worldwound) strikes me as pure Robert E. Howard Pict. Not real life picts. Howard Picts.
I can totally see a tribe of mutated, corrupted Kellids living in the ruins of Sarkonis ruled over by a small group of uncorrupted kings ... fighting a losing war against both the demons of the Worldwound and the legionary invaders from the South.
Bonus points if the last king makes a deal with worm demons. :-)
| Eric Hinkle |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
thistledown wrote:I do not see Conan among them - he would be a Shoanti. They are the 'Big guy topless barbarian' race with a bit of native american mixed in.I totally agree with you that Shoanti are a better Cimmarians.
I'm reading "Bran Mak Morn, the Last King" right now and everything about the Kellid (especially the shamanism, the native american influences and the corruption from the Worldwound) strikes me as pure Robert E. Howard Pict. Not real life picts. Howard Picts.
I can totally see a tribe of mutated, corrupted Kellids living in the ruins of Sarkonis ruled over by a small group of uncorrupted kings ... fighting a losing war against both the demons of the Worldwound and the legionary invaders from the South.
Bonus points if the last king makes a deal with worm demons. :-)
Does he also cut a deal with Areelu Vorlesh*, the Witch of the Moors?
* -- Given how she's supposed to be a witch working that demonic transformation rite, she seems sppropriate for a 'Worms of the Earth' shout out.
Aberrant Templar
|
This was your original question...
But I'm finding it difficult to get a bead on the Kellid aesthetic. Are they Celtic or Cro-Magnon? The write-up of Sarkoris in Lost Empires seems to indicate the former, with a pantheon of many gods and being the source of the Green Faith that many druids practice, along with things like barrows and standing stones. But all the artwork I see depicts them more like slightly civilized cavemen, riding mammoths in the icy north, dressed in hides and wielding bone weapons.
So...what ARE the Kellids supposed to be like?
...so that is what I tried to answer. The Kellids are very, very similar to R.E. Howard's Picts. Sort of a mixture of Kull-era Picts mixed with Conan-era Cimmarians with a touch of Bran Mac Morn-era "Worms of the Earth" corruption.
That's why they kind of seem Celtic in their historical culture but kind of seem Cro-Magnon in appearance. They're a R.E. Howard-style "race in decline" that was pushed back by the Southern invaders from Taldor and then crippled by a demonic invasion. Their once proud and kind of advanced culture has dropped from iron age to bronze age to flint (to bone, in some cases, because mammoths).
Howard and Lovecraft definitely had a lot of influence in the pathfinder setting so, to answer your original question, if you want to get a bead on aesthetics (of the Kellids, and the Azlanti, and a number of other areas) then a good place to start is with those authors.
For the second "Bernard Cornwell's King Arthur" question, I can't personally think of anywhere on the map that would be a close fit. You could probably work something out in the Lastwall/Nimarthas/Molthune area or maybe Brevory & the River Kingdoms. Cheliax is a pretty solid expy for the Roman empire both culturally and historically, so you'll want to fiddle with those old northern frontier colonies.
Archpaladin Zousha
|
The whole reason I asked the question in the first place was because I was looking for a way to play that character, and was told the Kellids were my best bet vis a vis Sarkoris.
And while Lastwall is very "Camelot-like" a lawful good nation that's home to a heroic knightly order, it's too modern for the kind of Arthur I'm trying to build.
And Cheliax doesn't seem very "Roman." They seem more "Italian." I know one originated from the other, but the fact of the matter is that Chelaxians DO NOT wear togas.
Aberrant Templar
|
And Cheliax doesn't seem very "Roman." They seem more "Italian." I know one originated from the other, but the fact of the matter is that Chelaxians DO NOT wear togas.
I can't think of any published culture that has been depicted as wearing togas other than maybe some pictures of Azlant in Second Darkness. Like I said, there is no perfect match (for any real world culture).
But out of all the various nations so far depicted in Pathfinder, Cheliax (particularly historical Cheliax back when it ruled the world) is the closest to being Roman, and just because they don't wear togas now doesn't mean togas weren't the height of courtly fashion back in the day when Aroden was alive.
There really isn't a good expy for Great Britain except maybe Iobaria, but there isn't a whole lot written about Iobaria yet. There are several frontier areas that could fill in with a bit of work: Brevoy, The River Kingdoms, Nirmathas, and Varisia all have a vaguely uncivilized frontier vibe to them. Cheliax provides the monotheistic southern empire to clash with. I know it isn't technically monotheistic, but for most of Cheliaxian history they were the chosen nation of the "one true god" Aroden. Now they have Asmodeus.
Anyway, good luck with your character.
Archpaladin Zousha
|
There really isn't a good expy for Great Britain except maybe Iobaria, but there isn't a whole lot written about Iobaria yet. There are several frontier areas that could fill in with a bit of work: Brevoy, The River Kingdoms, Nirmathas, and Varisia all have a vaguely uncivilized frontier vibe to them. Cheliax provides the monotheistic southern empire to clash with. I know it isn't technically monotheistic, but for most of Cheliaxian history they were the chosen nation of the "one true god" Aroden. Now they have Asmodeus.
It's not to clash against. It's for the person to draw some ideas of culture and particularly warfare to utilize when unifying your fellow native people against the barbaric invaders from across the water who were in turn displaced by other barbaric invaders riding in from the east to destroy the remnants of the withdrawn empire.