Halfling Ninja / Monk


Advice


I'm sure that there are umpteen posts on how to make a more viable build like this, but in my looking around most of the ones i saw didnt really address the issues i have with mine.

As a halfling all of my weapons are on the small template, and as a ninja all of my skills are dex based (other than Ki Pool) so naturally Weapon Finesse is an excellent early feat, but as a rogue archetype the ninja focuses on getting that sneak attack bonus through one of the many methods you can.

That said my first issue is that my ninja's wakizashi (a lovely weapon)deals 1d4 on a regular attack (god awful) and 1d4+1d6 on a sneak attack, at level 1 that's a fairly decent amount of damage (minimum 2 maximum 10 damage, somewhere between a rangers (1-8) and a barbarians (greatsword 2-12 + whatever. low level barbs are ridiculous) but i run into the issue where, as a halfling before having the cash for wands of darkvision and levels for more tricks for darkvision, getting sneak attack is ridiculously difficult except when flanking with my flank-buddy fighter because I cant stealth with enough light for me to see by and i cant sneak attack without having the light to see. any tips you can give me on this would be surely appreciated. EDIT: i took the Vanishing Trick ninja trick, so x (ki-points) times per day i get a free sneak attack)

one thing i thought about was multiclassing as a monk, which would grant some unique bonus's. if i took 3 levels as monk i would get a much greater ki-pool (more ki= more free sneak attacks= profit) flurry of blows presents some unique opportunities with stealth and sneak attack, but i have a question with that as well, would i be able to flurry of blows off of a feint attack (or improved feint), can i flurry of blows with my twin wakizashi or would i need to use a different weapon. if i do multiclass should i do 1 ninja then 3 monk resulting in 1 ninja then 3 monk and ninja thereafter or 1 monk level every 4 levels after the second so ninja, monk, ninja ninja ninja monk ninja ninja ninja monk and ninja thereafter (freaking confusing even to write, sorry) EDIT: as an afterthought, Barbarian Ninja. sneak attack with a greatsword?!?!

any other advice would be greatly appreciated, including other races/classes to enhance my ninja, after all the whole build is based on making that archetype better and more fun.


You can potentially flurry with shuriken for some decent damage, but overall, you've built a character with better defenses than offense.

Head toward shadow dancer to sneak attack once a round. Spring attack combines well with HIPS.

You also sneak attack when Yu go first, improved initiative should help.


Ok so first, for ninja and monk ki pool to stack you need 4 levels of monk, because only then you get the monk ki pool and 2 levels of ninja.
Second, since wakizashi is not a monk weapon, you cannot flurry with it.
I might be wrong on those two, but i think it´s like that.

Halfling and monk makes for supreme saves, that´s a big bonus. As a ninja you don´t have evasion, monks get it on level 2, another good thing. Fast movement on level 3 gives you 30 feet speed, also good.
You could consider archetypes that replace stunning fist with something, because your WIS won´t be high probably. (If you´re going for WIS better take a rogue with ki pool talent) Master of many styles and Flowing Monk could be interesting.

You have to decide for a path to do damage, either something like rkraus2 proposed, or you go flanking.
Anyway you might want to do something for your hit bonus, since you multiclass into a medium BAB class. Like weapon focus.

Lighting conditions without darkvision are an issue. Get a ion torch. And/or that feat that let´s you make sneak attack in dim light, forgot the name.

If you want antoher race, consider goblin or even hobgoblin, both have darkvision and can sneak really good.
Also carry a blowgun with poison darts, just awesome flavor.


Hayato Ken wrote:

Ok so first, for ninja and monk ki pool to stack you need 4 levels of monk, because only then you get the monk ki pool and 2 levels of ninja.

Second, since wakizashi is not a monk weapon, you cannot flurry with it.
I might be wrong on those two, but i think it´s like that.

Halfling and monk makes for supreme saves, that´s a big bonus. As a ninja you don´t have evasion, monks get it on level 2, another good thing. Fast movement on level 3 gives you 30 feet speed, also good.
You could consider archetypes that replace stunning fist with something, because your WIS won´t be high probably. (If you´re going for WIS better take a rogue with ki pool talent) Master of many styles and Flowing Monk could be interesting.

You have to decide for a path to do damage, either something like rkraus2 proposed, or you go flanking.
Anyway you might want to do something for your hit bonus, since you multiclass into a medium BAB class. Like weapon focus.

Lighting conditions without darkvision are an issue. Get a ion torch. And/or that feat that let´s you make sneak attack in dim light, forgot the name.

If you want antoher race, consider goblin or even hobgoblin, both have darkvision and can sneak really good.
Also carry a blowgun with poison darts, just awesome flavor.

some interesting ideas there, i really like flowing monk, and i think i might use that one, the issue still arises when i cant use the weapons i want with flurry of blows, but if i use shurikans i can sneak attack with a flurry of blows from the shadows, re-stealth, then move in and sneak attack with wakizashi, restealth with ki. rinse repeat until flank-buddy moves in to help me or enemy is dead. which arises another question, if i am stealthed, do i still grant my buddy flank, or will he have to like ready his attack action every round to trigger on my attack?

with flowing monk at level 3 (ninja 1 monk 2) i could stealth, wait in a chokepoint, and preform sneak attacks on provokes as per combat reflexes, with the unbalancing counter, albeit with a relitively easy reflex save, and have a group of enemies that just provoked from me flatfooted until the end of my next turn. that's two free sneak attacks.
unfortunately there isn't anything i know of that changes the flowing monk bonus's from my dump stat (wisdom) to charisma...


IIRC, there's a feat that lets you feint as part of a flurry. I distinctly remember being subsequently disappointed that feinting didn't trigger Medusa's Wrath.

Take a loot at the Halfling-specific feats regarding damage. I know halflings are secretly one of the best races for Monk DPR, I can only imagine that holds true for ninja as well.

Being a Monk will absolutely not boost your DPS. You can get some tricks via Flowing Monk / Maneuver Master / MoMS, but almost all of your benefits will be defensive.


Halflings are good for monk DPR? How?!?

Soul- the first thing I'd do is sit down with my party and come up with ways to get sneak attack. Figure out how far they are willing to go out of their way to help you, and what techniques you can use. From there, you'll know if you can build to take advantage of your party or build to get solo sneak attacks.


Beware with vanishing trick. There are monsters later who can detect you anyway. Also you won´t have that much ki to do it all day. And perhaps you won´t hit. If you want to go flanking shore up your HP and AC. Like Mystically Inclinced said, talk about it with your group and see if they can and want to cooperate. Lot of folks out there who unfortunately don´t.

Stealth/Invisible and flanking is a good question. I think so, but that´s only my opinion.

Waiting on chokepoints in adventures is something that doesn´t happen all day. For your and others fun it´s probably better to have something like an all-day plan and on top of that some cool tricks. But don´t depend on a trick only, that can be quite deadly or end up boring for you if you can´t use it.


Oh i just remembered, with an ifrit you can take smoke bombs ninja trick and a race feat that let´s you see through smoke and fire. So you can have sneak attack for sure in your smoke bomb.


There's also a feat that lets you attack while YOU are concealed, though it doesn't do anything about the other guy's concealment. So the Ifrit/smoke bomb trick would still be better. But I wanted to put it out there.


Halflings get a feat that let them trade AC for damage. The underfoot adept is also one of the best Monk archetypes. You need an Agile amulet to make it all work, though.

Apparently it only works on melee attacks though, which is sad--though I understand the decision. I always -wanted- a Shuriken Ninja to be viable, but it just doesn't want to happen.

Also, the Ifrit / Smoke Bomb trick is weak. Get an eversmoking bottle and a goz mask.

As a tangentially relevant segue, if you want more Ki have you considered a level dip in Mysterious Stranger? That gives you an excuse to pump up your Cha higher and helps with damage.


thanks for all the tips and tricks guys, i've decided that i'm gonna go with a ninja shadowdancer, if anything other than flat ninja. the problem for me is that a stealth-oriented rogue/ninja class sounds like itd be extremely fun to play, but not all that viable/doable. id love to be a halfling that can stealth in random ass daylight (oblivion style) but i dont think its possible, so im going to build a bit more flankbuddy with stealth/vanishing for an "ohshitimgonnadietimetovanish" mechanic or for when i have time and concealment enough to stealth, and ill probably do a tossup between a Teifling rogue or a halfling with a wand of darkness and use spellcaster services to get a days worth of darkvision cast on me, untill such a time as i can afford to use a ninja trick on darkvision. at least that gives me one fight per day where i can be like, Hey, its dark now and i can stealth unless you have full darkvision.

still trying to figure out a way around barbarians, oozes, elementals, and other non crittable creatures, in my pfs experience there are alot of these...

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