So, I'm reading the first chapter of the RotRL Campaign, and I kind of noticed, the adventure kinda trails off into the Catacombs of Wrath from the Glassworks.
I was kinda reading this with the thought in my head of "... why would the party go in here, exactly?". I couldn't exactly think of anything beyond "Oh hey, a tunnel! Let's check it out". Though probable, and very likely given the people I am running it for, it just seems out of place, motivation wise. I'd say that Tsuto and the goblins ran down it, so maybe they chased after, but what if Tsuto dies, or the goblins die AND Tsuto dies? Then there's nobody to chase down that cavern.
I am aware it's my responsibility to give story and reasoning behind stuff like this, but I'm just curious about input. I can't tell if I missed something EXTREMELY important that should lead the party that way to begin with.
Any thoughts/input? :) Much appreciated!
Well, either:
(a) Tsuto flees down the tunnel and they pursue him, or
(b) They defeat Tsuto, obtain his journal, and learn about the "quasit" in the tunnels under Sandpoint, or
(c) Tsuto gets away with his journal into the streets of Sandpoint, and the party has no leads at all.
So the obvious solution is, "Don't do (c)."
Many parties will read about the quasit and Thistletop, and decide that Thistletop is the greater threat, which is probably true. Unfortunately, if they go there without doing the catacombs first, they'll be missing precious XP.
So if your party is extremely motivation-driven, I'd suggest making sure the NPCs have a vested interest in getting them down there. Sheriff Hemlock would much rather see them down there than himself. The mayor (and Shalelu for that matter) will back him. Brodert Quink would love to get down there and look around. It's quite possible for a party to let itself get bogged down right here, wondering, "What would my PC really do here?"
But if the answer is, "I'd just sit around and have another drink. Why should I risk my neck for these rubes?", then you're going to have a real issue running RotRL. The whole AP assumes the party is going to become fond of Sandpoint, and work to protect it. If you've got true neutral or slightly-evil PCs who don't care one way or another if Sandpoint gets erased off the map, you're not going to have a good motivation for them not to let it happen.
Personally, I don't pull my hair out over such things. I'm perfectly happy to let an adventure come to a complete standstill if the 'adventurers' don't want to adventure. "OK. You sit around and swill ale for the next two weeks. Mark off 21 g.p. apiece. What would you like to do now?"
You'd be amazed how fast a daily gold drain and complete lack of motivation on the GM's part gets them to try SOMETHING other than sitting around. Then all you have to do is provide the clues that point them in the direction you want them to go...
*facepalm*
I don't know how, but I had already forgotten that the journal mentions about it and thus gives reasons for them to at least check it out, if it has any link to what's going on. Yeah, C would suck to do, though depending how I did it, I could still maybe lead them down there. Perhaps if Tsuto runs away, but somehow drops his journal in the middle of the street while being tracked or something.
Yeah, was thinking about that, cuz it mentions about Thistletop which would make people kind of jump the gun and go there instead of checking out the Catacombs. At least it's very possible.
Naw, the party for the most part is all good or neutral good at the least. I don't think any of them would go 'Nuts to this, I wanna drink' or anything. Everyone's putting in a fair bit of effort for their characters' motivations, which makes me happy.
But yeah, that makes perfect sense. Will hopefully have them notice the journal, or chase Tsuto down the tunnel. Or worst case scenario, he leaves and they track him to find his journal somewhere interesting.
Thanks, that kind of cleared up some things I wasn't 100% on :)
No worries; that's what the forums are for.
There are also a spate of campaign threads (mine included) that can give you ideas; the whole reason I started mine was because I found Mikaze's thread on Crimson Throne one of the best resources I had for running that campaign...
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If i remember right, Sheriff Hemlock is 'out of town' getting fresh recruits for the town guard and asked the PCs to stay in town to keep an eye on things.
So if your party is gun-ho on going to thistle-top first, just remind them of the sheriff's wishes to stay in town and that the tunnels would be a better choice.
If they don't go into the catacombs, the catacombs come to them. Have some sinspawn come crawling up out ofthe tunnel and start stalking the town at night. Maybe some undead as well.
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I had the sheriff deputize the party to bring Tsuto to justice, "one way or another." Some of them have grown attached to Ameiko, so it's now personal, as well. Instead of them finding Tsuto in the Glassworks or the smuggler tunnels, I had him flee into the Catacombs, in the hopes of meeting up with Nualia there. The PCs will encounter him with the imp (my party is a little more powerful than average, and 6 players, so I'm beefing up that encounter).
All of these are great suggestions and help me kind of avoid them having no reason to go there, or going to Thistletop too quickly :D Thanks everyone! I hope once I get into the groove of GM'ing, things'll come to me naturally.
No worries; that's what the forums are for.
There are also a spate of campaign threads (mine included) that can give you ideas; the whole reason I started mine was because I found Mikaze's thread on Crimson Throne one of the best resources I had for running that campaign...
Hi guys,
I'm green to the whole posting thing so forgive me if I'm posting where I shouldn't. I had a question about the encounter with Erylium...
Now, I've done a lot of reading in this blog on some of your encounters and MAN did that inspire my creativity! And it helped me make the encounter really fun by fixing some of the 'stuff' that made it challenging or annoying for the players. We finished our session last night and the group really enjoyed it.
My groups is really getting into know how to up their chances in the fight! They had their weapons blessed by Father Zantus AND bought cold iron projectiles! NICE! Once in the Cathedral, the 'failed jedi' cleric raised his blessed ale flask to up everyone's stats, and noticing the quasit blip in an out of sight, he readied his cold iron bolt... rolled a 1, so I gave him a reflex save to avoid dropping it, rolled a 1... and into the pool of 'safe' water it went. Next turn he spent a hero point to heal the party, grab his crossbow, and ready himself again. This time he nailed her when she blipped in which royally pissed her off. Out come a giant spider and dire rat over the next two turns flanking the cleric and causing the players to really worry about this quasit. The room now has a near dead sinspawn and two summoned monsters plus a 'who knows where' demon. Sorry I'm rambling, out of summon spells the quasit sees her chance for fun. She slumber hexes the Vanayran monk, and commands the smiteful pally to a come to her as she hovers over the minor runewell. He has JUST enough movement to make this happen, and with two fail saves in a row the pally is now enraged and consumed with wrath. His immediate action was 12 points of damage against the half-orc barbarian using Tsuto's composite bow.
And that's where we ended off... They are nervous but doing well with the challenge so far. My question is how long does the runewell's wrath effect last?
The rage buff/effect is 2d6 minutes... But what about being consumed with wrath? I'm fine with just letting the 2d6 minutes be the duration for both, but 8 min in combat is looong. Can the PC be awoken from the wrath trance?
What are your thoughts?
Oh, and as for how to get the PCs into the Catacombs, I share your concern there. My guys, being the heros that they are, having read Tsuto's journal, were all ready to charge into Thistletop!
Noooo!!
But the cleric made a successful "what-the-hecks-a-quasit" check and learning it wasn't from this plane, was an evil demon, and delighted in the tourture and suffering of others suggested to the party to consult with Father Zantus.
In my head I went "YES"!
See, I had embleished Father Zatus a bit earlier - during the meeting with the Sheriff, and Shalelu. Zantus shared horrible visions and nightmares about a terrible evil seeping up through the sands of Sandpoint, and just before he was about to be swallowed by it, a flash of bright light appeared and Father Tobyn appeared saving him from the dark oozy fate. In the process Father Tobyn was consumed by the evil. A vivid dream but it set the tone nicely!
So now with the PCs divulging the recent events of the Glassworks to Father Zantus, he's conerns were now grounded in reality. Nualia (recognized form the drawings), didn't die in the fire, she likely started it, the reappearance of Tsuto, the death of Lonjiku... all hit him pretty hard. So that was my chance!
Father Zantus charged the heros to vanquish this evil and free Sandpoint from this terrible fate. The more-than-eager rookie pally had been obsessed with the tower of light since the AP began, and was almost gleeful at the chance to smite some ass in the depths below Sandpoint.
I also allowed Father Zantus to advise the PCs that a quasit demon that can disappear from sight is not to be taken lightly. He then had all the weapons blessed to gain the Good alignment to better aid them against the menace under Sandpoint.
Honestly, it was rading other blogs here that helped me make these kind of decisions. It's helped me SO MUCH. And I LOVE NoBodysHome's take on things. I feel like we Gm very similarly! I love story and adding to the AP as much as I can - I had playable games in the Festival at the start of the AP (ie. chugging contests with Fort saves for each 'glug', dice gamling based of Risk dice rules to warm up the players to their dice, and I had Zelda like pressure plates and puzzles to open the secret door under the glassworks and gain entry to the Catacombs)
I'm rambling again haha. I'm just happy to be able to converse with other GMs :)
Bear with me!
;)
Honestly, it was reading other blogs here that helped me make these kind of decisions. It's helped me SO MUCH. And I LOVE NoBodysHome's take on things. I feel like we Gm very similarly! I love story and adding to the AP as much as I can - I had playable games in...
Ooooh... now you're in trouble!
Campaign blog! Campaign blog! Campaign blog!!! ;-)
But yes, most of the fun of the AP is having a beautifully well-established set of NPCs and backgrounds and getting to build your own events around them and run with them. Sounds like you're doing a spectacular job with Father Zantus -- he's a bit of a dud in my campaign.
Having the party know about the quasit is key, because then they can obliterate her pretty easily (paladin + bow + Smite Evil = No more quasit).
I'm having fun right now building my own side adventure: The RotRL crew is finally going back to Absalom to learn a bit more about Raesh's roots... but they'll learn more about that on Friday...and the whole things is totally outside of the AP.
My fellow GM (running Carrion Crown) is complaining bitterly specifically because Carrion Crown doesn't provide enough 'pauses' between events, so PCs are always being herded along. RotRL provides deliberate pauses in some places, and deliberate hurry-ups in others. Be sure to let the PCs relish the pauses...
Hey Nobody! :)
Thanks for replying!
I have been debating a blog for a little while. I'm SURE my players would LOVE it! haha
Reading about other Erylium encounters was SO hilarious and educational for setting up my own. I would get a kick out of a recording an account of our adventures!
One question I was hoping you could lend your advice to was in regards to the runewell. Erylium successfully commanded the Paladin to step into it, and he's failed his saves. So there goes the bonus of a pally full of smite! lol
How long does that "kill everyone" wrath thing last? How would you treat it? The rage effect is 2d6 minutes (rolled an 8), but what about the wrath state? Is the Wrath and Rage effects different? Same?
Any help is appreciated! I gotta know how to handle this poor bugger!
;)
The runewell description is pretty clear: The victim is under the effects of a rage spell for 2d6 minutes, and
immediately attacks the nearest living creature. If no living creatures are in sight, the enraged creature is compelled to seek out a victim, moving at full speed in its search.
It's a really sucky effect, and it should lead to great hilarity: The paladin's move is most likely pathetic (20', anyone?), but the paladin is going to chase someone for the next 8 minutes. A sensible party will have everyone else run away, and one faster PC dance around just outside of the paladin's range for the next 8 minute. A nice sidetrack, but eventually harmless. If the party insists on trying Diplomacy rolls, I'd go ahead and let the pally smack them for a while until the rage wears off.
It's really really REALLY annoying for the PCs, but it'll teach them not to go falling into wells. And it should teach them some tactics against non-intelligent enemies: Leading him to the surface into Sandpoint will get some NPCs killed (leading to the inevitable: Does a mind-controlled pally who kills an innocent fall?), while sitting there trying to talk to him will eventually get a fellow PC killed. Trying to take him down with nonlethal damage will similarly get someone killed.
There's a proper tactic. (Run and stay just out of reach.) There are obvious consequences if they fail to follow this tactic (someone gets whaled on by a raging paladin. Ouch). I'd let it play out for the full 8 minutes. Let spells lapse. Let monsters reset themselves due to all the noise the angry pally is making.
Seriously. A paladin failed a DC 15 Will save. Let him suffer! ;-)
Ooooh... now you're in trouble!Campaign blog! Campaign blog! Campaign blog!!! ;-)
I've got an idea brewing, but I'd like to delve into your thoughts as well...
Our Cleric, as I mentioned he's the 'Failed Jedi' type, is really intrigued by Tsuto's masterwork flute. I was just chatting with him and he's gonna try and play it to calm down the Paladin; following the runewell incident...
Now, I imagine Paizo just had the flute there as a simple instrument. But I'm temped to actually DO something with it... Given that Tsuto had it, it would have to have a purpose that would fit with his character...
- He commanded goblins... mind control effect?
- He was revenge driven... some sort of bloodlust buff?
- He had an abandoned upbringing... could it inspire peace of mind?
- Maybe it was dropped off to him annonomously at the boarding school, something from his real father, something of elven make, something that would represent his father's wish for him to rise above his struggles to become a better hero and adventurer... Oooooo I like this train of thought... I might even connect it to a side adventure... As for effects, possession could give the owner a +1 charisma (father's wish to be more than he currently is) and when you play it it has a bard-like effect of +1 dodge bonus to AC for all allies within a 20ft. radius(3/day).
OMG!
I just remembered that the Cleric is Half-Elf! And his back story is that he doesn't know who his father is... BINGO: His father is ALSO TSUTO'S FATHER! TSUTO IS HIS HALF BROTHER!! MAN, there's a WHOLE 'NOTHER AP brewing here!! Save his brother, search for his father, deal with a huge situation related to his father... like help save their father's failing elven clan, redeem the clan, over come some evil threat, uncover a plot set out by an evil wizard to have the sons of this father to be lost and unnamed, rather than fulfilling a destiny...
It rings a bit like the whole Saruman/Rohan thing... but wow...
I have to go now...
.... Now all I can picture is the party being chased by the paladin with yackety sax playing in the background.
.... Now all I can picture is the party being chased by the paladin with yackety sax playing in the background.
I carry a boom box with that on infinite loop for just such occasions.
Juicecan that is a brilliant use of "command". Holy crap. Why did I never think of that, and why can I not stop laughing maniacally?
Technically, the nearest living thing probably was the Quasit. Unless they all rushed her at the same moment... usually several party members would either be using bows, spells, or attacking the Sinspawn.
Technically, the nearest living thing probably was the Quasit. Unless they all rushed her at the same moment... usually several party members would either be using bows, spells, or attacking the Sinspawn.
I allowed Ms. Quasi to blip invisible as a free/swift action after she saw the paladin approach the rune well. If I could upload the pic of our map, you'd see it was a very close race of who was closest. But the half orc barbarian won and his movement isn't much better than the pally's!
Good Lord am I in for a whirlwind next week!
A neat thing about that flute, I play the wow soundtrack for ambience and such... there's times it gets super creepy RIGHT when the party was exploring the catacombs... the party would look back and shout at the cleric, "enough with the fluting!?"
Hmm. While a Quasit's invisibility is "At will," does that mean it's a Swift or Instant ability? I just assumed it meant it was a spellcasting ability like any 0-level spell. As such, the Quasit would need to wait for its initiative, and would be visible as Command is an Attack spell.
But then, I screwed up with her due to the insanity of having a halfling priestess successfully grapple her and then proceed to shove her silver holy symbol down the quasit's throat. ^^;; (And even then I still allowed the quasit's invisibility to be up. The halfling rolled real lucky.)
Hmm. While a Quasit's invisibility is "At will," does that mean it's a Swift or Instant ability? I just assumed it meant it was a spellcasting ability like any 0-level spell. As such, the Quasit would need to wait for its initiative, and would be visible as Command is an Attack spell.
That's a good point actually...
Erylium wouldn't be able to use her invisibility at the end of her turn (having casted command). And she'd be the closest living creature...
Hmmm... I can correct this with no issue. But it does remove the conundrum the party is currently in - disappointing to the GM but it leans towards being fair to the players. I was trying to get someone enraged by the runewell and, as cool as it seemed, I botched it up rule-wise...
Then again, Erylium wouldn't have done that and stayed close... she would have cast command and stayed just far enough away... THAT seems more likely. Maybe I'll reduce the duration to be fair...
Hmmm... for me, as a GM, fairness plays higher than forcing something interesting. What do you guys think - what would you do?
The Pally would LOVE being enraged AND smiteful towards that Quasit Queen! And should they kill the quasit, what then of the Pally's rage - next closest?
haha
Ooooh... now you're in trouble!Campaign blog! Campaign blog! Campaign blog!!! ;-)
I started it! Campaign blog! Just a intro for now, more to come!
I have no idea of to link it here tho...
Peace out!
Let me take care of that for you.
Thinking on it some more, perhaps you can have Erylium dissapear cackling down the hallway as the party deal with the enraged paladin, just to save them from being overwhelmed. The party can either grapple him or seal him in the chamber to prevent him from tearing up your party.
Oh , one more question. Then Pally had a short bow out when he becomes enraged. My first thought was drop it and chase someone, but in order to attack someone immediately I had him fire shots with the bow.
Keep him shooting the party from range? I like the yakaty sax scene more but he already had the bow out.
Oh , one more question. Then Pally had a short bow out when he becomes enraged. My first thought was drop it and chase someone, but in order to attack someone immediately I had him fire shots with the bow.
Keep him shooting the party from range? I like the yakaty sax scene more but he already had the bow out.
Personally, I find uncontrollable rage to be something visceral and personal. I'd have him drop the bow and go hand-to-hand. It's absolutely your call. He can decide that the bow doesn't feel as good as smacking someone, and drop it next round and start using a hand-to-hand weapon.
I think we're going to have to start a new paladin thread: "If a paladin starts Yakety Sax playing, does he fall?"
There is another option. He's so enraged he wants to get his HANDS on other people. In other words, he's going to pound on them with his fists and try to throttle them and the like. He's enraged. He's not thinking straight.
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I agree with NobodysHome here - the intent feels like it should be immediate and hands-on, a real "haze of red" thing. If they have a bow out, then I could see charging the nearest person and doing their best to beat the crap out of them with the bow, rather than doing the smart thing and just shooting them with it. This is a minor artifact made by someone who had mastered the art of wrath magic. I'm pretty sure Alaznist wanted someone affected by this to be bathed in the blood of their victims.
I agree with NobodysHome here - the intent feels like it should be immediate and hands-on, a real "haze of red" thing. If they have a bow out, then I could see charging the nearest person and doing their best to beat the crap out of them with the bow, rather than doing the smart thing and just shooting them with it. This is a minor artifact made by someone who had mastered the art of wrath magic. I'm pretty sure Alaznist wanted someone affected by this to be bathed in the blood of their victims.
I personally *love* the "beat them to death with a bow" option -- keeps the players from getting killed by their own pally, and still feels visceral and "real".