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OK. I've been watching martial arts movies since... well... a long time ago. I came up with this quickly, so please help out if you can suggest something better or an improvement I would appreciate it.
Str 13 (or better) required.
First level: Cleave, Power Attack(as human)
Second level: Bleeding attack
Third level: exotic weapon prof:whip (probably at 1st, with cleave or PA later)
Fourth level: weapon focus (whip)
Fifth level: whip master (no AoO, lethal damage at will)
Sixth level: Great Cleave
Seventh level: improved whip mastery (+5 feet)
Eight level: lunge (+5 feet)
Ninth level: -swap to Shadowdancer, HiPS.
Alright, so the longspear is out, and whip is in. Per RAW, I could hit all adjacent foes within 25 feet (so long as they are adjacent and I don't miss). Still relatively cool concept. Basically whip em all for 4d6 sneak attack and 4 bleed.
Scorpion whip not needed due to feats.
STR/CHA with Enforcer and a bunch of ranks in intimidate?
Seems like there was something else I was missing with the whole "non-lethal" thing.
unless i am wrong improved whip mastery just allows you to threaten up to 10 ft. it does not make the whip reach extend to 20
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where's the sneak attack from ?
seriously? 8 levels of rogue... before going SD and HiPS... Great Cleave lets you do a standard action swap for an attack which deals your normal damage (in this case, attacking from HiPS = sneak attack... pretend its on the surprise round, I am not having that discussion here please, already ran 2 different threads on HiPS and sneak attacking today). Basically you hit all foes standing next to each other (adjacent) with your whip (until you miss one)... within 20 feet!
Improved reposition would be the next feat to throw at this build... allowing me to effectively push opponents closer to each other to keep it going if needed... super hero style...
If you're a rogue, how did you get Power Attack at first level?
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If you're a rogue, how did you get Power Attack at first level?
I didn't. like I said, the starting skills are kinda hinked up cause I just threw them in fast. Really doesn't matter what they are at first level, because OBVIOUSLY I can't do the whole "whip em all" thing yet. I was just doing the level thing to keep count of the number of feats mostly. (Would need to have combat expertise too... so maybe by 10th or 11th he could start pushing people around to continue hitting them all) And of course pushed foes wouldn't be hurt. In any event it is more of a 9th level + "result" build.
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Sooo... If I am a center square, and I have 60 people around me, and I land a hit on all of them (theoretically I will roll a one 3 times), the damage potential (under perfect tight form formation) is normal 1d4 + str bonus + 4d6 + 4 bleed. Times 60. I like being in the theoretical 240d6 range... + 240 bleed damage a round afterwards... Is that comparable to most other 9th level builds?
(yeh, I know, it is under perfect alignment of the sun and stars and moons, etc...)
even without the 5 feet from lunge, it could effect 36 opponents, or have a 154d6 damage potential...
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OK, So I can't get the skills at level 1...
Level 1:
Level 2: Power Attack *(combat trick)
Level 3: Cleave *(normal feat)
Level 4: Exotic weapon proficiency (whip) combat trick
Level 5: Weapon focus (whip) (normal feat)
Level 6: Great Cleave *(rogue talent, combat trick)
Level 7: Whip Master (normal feat)
Level 8: Lunge *(combat trick)
Level 9: HiPS, Combat Expertise
Level 10: None
Level 11: two more feats (either from 3rd level SD or as 10th level rogue) - Improved Reposition being one of them...Improved whip mastery the other
Is that better? So now I just need to figure out what two feats to take at 1st level... or a feat and a race?
Same effect at level 9 you are a killer of army formations... at 11 you can shove loose formations around a bit...
This might bring the whole thing crashing down but I think you can only take each rogue talent once, so you cant take multiple combat tricks for extra feats.
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This might bring the whole thing crashing down but I think you can only take each rogue talent once, so you cant take multiple combat tricks for extra feats.
OK. So that limits it to Combat Trick for one, and Weapon Training for another... So at level 2 it would be Exotic weapon proficiency (whip) and at 4 it would be Weapon Focus (Whip). With 3 being power attack, 5 being cleave, seven being great cleave. SIX - no feat, but a talent. and Eight also. Yep, that puts a hitch in it... guess I gotta keep reading some... becomes a few levels higher to do the same thing (a lot few).
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OK so...
Level 1 fighter +1bab: Power Attack, Cleave, Exotic Weapon Prof (Whip)
Level 2 Rogue: Nothin
Level 3 Rogue +2bab: Weapon Training: Weapon Focus (Whip), Feat - Combat Expertise
Level 4 Rogue: nothin
Level 5 Rogue +3: Talent - Combat trick - Whip Master Feat - Advanced Reposition
Level 6 Rogue: Nothin
Level 7 Rogue +4: Talent (Bleeding Attack), Feat - Great Cleave
Level 8 Rogue: Nothin
Level 9 Rogue +5: Talent Fast Stealth, Feat Enforcer 4d6 SA
Level 10 SD: HiPS
Level 11 SD +6: Feat Lunge
So I had to go from level 9 to level 11 to get it done, dip into Fighter one level also...
Yeah, its a shame you cant take that one multiple times, it might make the rogue a bit less hard work.
Does it have to be a whip? Can you achieve the same if you were a ninja rather than a rogue and used ninja reach weapons?
Other than that maybe dip a level or 2 into something else. Bard gives you whip proficiency, Fighter would get you feats and BAB +1 at 1st. 1 level of Kensai Magus would give you EWP, Weapon Focus and Canny Defence and a few spells.
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Yeah, its a shame you cant take that one multiple times, it might make the rogue a bit less hard work.
Does it have to be a whip? Can you achieve the same if you were a ninja rather than a rogue and used ninja reach weapons?
Other than that maybe dip a level or 2 into something else. Bard gives you whip proficiency, Fighter would get you feats and BAB +1 at 1st. 1 level of Kensai Magus would give you EWP, Weapon Focus and Canny Defence and a few spells.
Ninja has same restriction on the combat talents... The reason I took whip... well I started with a longspear, but that doesn't work for people adjacent to you. Whip allows attacks anywhere within reach. So getting lunge was the goal (to extend its reach to 20 feet). It seems to work out ok at level 11 though. And in fact, with that build you are possibly hitting loads of people at level 7 for 3d6 +3 bleed, albiet only on a surprise round (no HiPS yet) coming out of stealth.
If you can point out any ninja weapons that have reach that allows attacking withing their full range I would be happy to look at the swapping of them. But honestly, a whip is the most versitile tool in the shed from what I can see (can do lethal, non lethal, trip, grapple and a 20 foot reach (eventually) not limited within the range at all). The reason it works is because it is not limited inside the reach range. Otherwise the build would not be worth a darn (woo hoo, I can great cleave with a 1d4 weapon, woopity doo).
Well a few things here:
Enforcer does not work with a whip.
Swashbuckler Rogue can get you Combat Trick twice
and
I don't think cleave will work out like you think.
EDIT: Enforcer does work with a whip I was thinking of Sap Adept
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Well a few things here:
Enforcer does not work with a whip.
Swashbuckler Rogue can get you Combat Trick twice
and
I don't think cleave will work out like you think.
I don't see anything in the Enforcer feat that says it doesn't work with whips. Whips are melee weapons.
OK on the swashbuckler... don't need it now thanks.
As far as cleave and great cleave, again, whips are melee weapons. Doesn't say slashing, etc... so RAW it works. I realize some GMs would look at you and go "um, no, you can't possibly hit 60 people with a 15 foot whip". That is common sense. I can also see the person making the argument that WHIPPED AROUND like a crazy fool at their heads, he could. I am just making a build to show what RAW is allowing. And seeing what the maximium potential damage is (like I pointed out, attacking 60 people would generally mean rolling three 1's)
I don't know if you can weild a whip with 2 hands (don't know why you couldn't, they have long handles), so the damage at level 11 would be:
1d4 + 1 1/2 * STR Bonus + 4d6 (Sneak Attack) + 4 Bleed (Talent bonus) + 6 (Power Attack, as your attack form). (I think it works out to -4 AC until your next turn, but then you are HiPS after the attack... soo.....)
And if you choose to do non-lethal, they still get the bleed and you can do a free action Intimidate on them that are hit... uh huh... maybe just selecting the crits to use this skill with (I don't see that you have to choose this first, before attacking). Thus making those you hit with Intimidate run screaming....
