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Large Cats. Large Wolves. Medium Bears?!? Anyone know why you can not have a Large Bear as an animal companion?
A player of mine wants to make Bear Calvary, but bears only get to medium. Is there any specific reason as to why?
Thanks
Goraxes
You could always house rule it. Also check out animal archive. I don't know what it has but it may have the solution.
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There was actually a thread where one of the designers (JJ maybe? JB?) discussed the reason for the size progression on the bear. The main reason was that the bear starts out with really good stats, and a progression that puts him to large would put him out of balance with the other AC entries and character power expectations. They wanted the bear to be of an appropriate power level that a level 1 druid could have access to him.
So instead of getting a grizzly, you get a roly-poly adorable little black bear animal companion.
Have him consider gaining his Animal Companion via levels of Sorcerer with the Sylvan Wildblooded Archetype. Then he could cast Enlarge Person on his bear animal companion. 4 levels of the sorcerer plus the Boon companion feat would get him a large bear, and he could take it from there.
He could also consider a melee Cleric build with the Animal and Strength domains. He could take Boon Companion at level five for an animal companion at the same level as a druid and cast Enlarge Person (which he gains as a domain spell form the Strength domain) to turn his bear into a full-sized mount for a medium character. Enlarge Person lasts for a minute per level, which will easily see you through just about any combat, and when you've got a little cash tucked away you could have a mage cast Permanency on him to make it permanent.
There was actually a thread where one of the designers (JJ maybe? JB?) discussed the reason for the size progression on the bear. The main reason was that the bear starts out with really good stats, and a progression that puts him to large would put him out of balance with the other AC entries and character power expectations. They wanted the bear to be of an appropriate power level that a level 1 druid could have access to him. So instead of getting a grizzly, you get a roly-poly adorable little black bear animal companion.
You could always house rule it. Also check out animal archive. I don't know what it has but it may have the solution.
I'm with Lunchbox3000 - house rule it, but be smart about it and use what Ssalarn said as a guideline. Power down the bear's stats a bit to bring it in line with the other animal companions that achieve large size. I'd also suggest advancing it to large size at level 4 or 7 (this is usually the level that ACs advance in stats or size, so follow that guideline.) Use other animals that advance from medium to large as a guideline here and go with it. Let you player know that you want them to have fun and won't take the size away, but you may decide to tweak the stats up or down a bit, depending on how it plays. I'm a fan of house rules, just make sure you and your player have a good understanding between you.
Use the stats for the Big Cat and reduce speed to 30 ft.
I would allow a player who wanted a bear to have the bear become large at 7th level. Should prevent the balance problems at low levels and make it a viable option for later levels.
Although, you should let the player know that as GM you are doing an experiment here and reserve the right to nerf this bear later if it's required for balance issues. Only way to figure these things out are to try things and see what happens.
There is an archetype that is designed to do precisely this...
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---ca valier-archetypes/beast-rider
"In addition, a 7th-level or higher Medium beast rider can select any creature whose natural size is Large or Huge, provided that creature is normally available as a Medium-sized animal companion at 7th level (like a bear). To generate statistics for such a mount, apply the following modifications:
Size Large
Ability Scores Str +2, Dex –2, Con +2;
Increase the damage of each of the mount’s natural attacks by one die size.
"
The reason that Large Bear isn't on the primary list is every 3.5 Druid went right for the Bears b/c they were overpowered and all the animal companions were internally unbalanced. At least in PF they created an animal companion mechanic that attempts to internally balance the companion and also allows you to begin the game with any type of animal you want which is huge when you actually start play at 1st level.
There was actually a thread where one of the designers (JJ maybe? JB?) discussed the reason for the size progression on the bear. The main reason was that the bear starts out with really good stats, and a progression that puts him to large would put him out of balance with the other AC entries and character power expectations. They wanted the bear to be of an appropriate power level that a level 1 druid could have access to him.
So instead of getting a grizzly, you get a roly-poly adorable little black bear animal companion.
Not true, Large Apes have similar stats.
Small Bear (gained at 1st) Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 1 bite (1d4), 2 claw (1d3)
Meduim Bear (gainedat 4th): Str 19, Dex 13, Con 15 Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 1 bite (1d6), 2 claw (1d4).
Meduim Ape (gained at 1st): 1 bite (1d4), 2 claw (1d4)
Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Large Ape (gained at 4th): 1 bite (1d6), 2 claw (1d6)
Str 21, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
(not including level bonuses to stats)
Why can't a bear increase later like 8-10th?
Really if you want a large bear, you have get an Ape and call it a bear, you lose 10 land speed, gain a climb speed. Also gain 1 NA.
The big cat exists, the dinosaurs exists ... the bear as it is shouldn't exist. There is no justification for the animal companion system, only excuses. It's a complete and utter mess.
Use the 3.5 animal companion system OP, it's just plain better.
Honestly, this sounds like an opinion I'd like to hear explained n it's own thread. I found the 3.5 system far too complicated and vague.
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There was actually a thread where one of the designers (JJ maybe? JB?) discussed the reason for the size progression on the bear. The main reason was that the bear starts out with really good stats, and a progression that puts him to large would put him out of balance with the other AC entries and character power expectations. They wanted the bear to be of an appropriate power level that a level 1 druid could have access to him.
So instead of getting a grizzly, you get a roly-poly adorable little black bear animal companion.Not true, Large Apes have similar stats.
Small Bear (gained at 1st) Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 1 bite (1d4), 2 claw (1d3)
Meduim Bear (gainedat 4th): Str 19, Dex 13, Con 15 Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 1 bite (1d6), 2 claw (1d4).Meduim Ape (gained at 1st): 1 bite (1d4), 2 claw (1d4)
Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Large Ape (gained at 4th): 1 bite (1d6), 2 claw (1d6)
Str 21, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
(not including level bonuses to stats)Why can't a bear increase later like 8-10th?
Right, but the medium bear is basically equal to the large ape in stat value and damage output. The small bear is actually tougher and stronger than the medium ape. If the bear were increased another step to large he would be superior to the ape in every way. Thank you for proving my point. That's why you have small black bears instead of medium grizzly's.
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Because they're the number one threat to America already!
There is not a single matchup between equal level animal companions in 3.5 which compares against say a 7+ level antelope vs a 7+ level big cat in PF ...
I said "attempted" not "succeeded" but heregoes,
Hmmmm... Medium prey animal vs Large predator....
Str 14
Dex 22
Con 16
Int 2
Wis 13
Chr 5
Armor Class 21
Gore +10 (with Finesse) 1d4+2
Speed 60
Str 24
Dex 17
Con 17
Int 2
Wis 15
Chr 10
Armor Class 20
Bite +11 1d8+7, 2 claws +11 1d6+7
Speed 40
So, to offset the obvious size advantage, the Antelope will use its speed advantage to get somewhere that the Cat will have to squeeze itself into. Applying a -4 to the Lion's Armor Class and attack rolls.
This will put it at a +7 trying to hit a 21AC while the antelope will have a +10 trying to hit a 16AC.
Since the Antelope will probably still fail to win at the "death of a thousand paper cuts" 1d4+2 damage against a 6 HD cat if it hasn't been grappled, it might still be able to run away.
Mobility can be it's own advantage, not every animal is intended for pit fighting.
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There is not a single matchup between equal level animal companions in 3.5 which compares against say a 7+ level antelope vs a 7+ level big cat in PF ...I said "attempted" not "succeeded" but heregoes,
Hmmmm... Medium prey animal vs Large predator....
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
So, to offset the obvious size advantage, the Antelope will use its speed advantage to get somewhere that the Cat will have to squeeze itself into. Applying a -4 to the Lion's Armor Class and attack rolls.
This will put it at a +7 trying to hit a 21AC while the antelope will have a +10 trying to hit a 16AC.
Since the Antelope will probably still fail to win at the "death of a thousand paper cuts" 1d4+2 damage against a 6 HD cat if it hasn't been grappled, it might still be able to run away.
Mobility can be it's own advantage, not every animal is intended for pit fighting.
Mobility really can count for a lot, especially when you remember that Animal Companions are balanced as class features, not characters in their own right. A gnome ranger on an antelope is going to be one obnoxious little ranged combatant.
