Why human? They don't start with natural weapons. A Half-orc can start with tusks for a bite attack. Ratfolk with a feat can get two claw attacks, add in a tail knife for a 3rd nat attack (albeit secondary, not primary).
Tieflings can get claws, as well. Tengu can start with a bite and two claws.
I was playing around with this build for a villain and found it is pretty good at low levels but loses steam really quickly. Go for a high STR and take power attack as a first level feat. Pick up Aspect of the Beast as your 2nd level combat feat. Like Bookrat suggested playing a race with access to a bite attack would help tremendously.
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I was playing around with this build for a villain and found it is pretty good at low levels but loses steam really quickly. Go for a high STR and take power attack as a first level feat. Pick up Aspect of the Beast as your 2nd level combat feat. Like Bookrat suggested playing a race with access to a bite attack would help tremendously.
It only loses steam if you don't properly itemize for it. If you don't pick up your 4th natural attack by 7th-8th level then you can quickly fall way behind in DPR.
This build is all about high strength, Power Attack and multiple attacks per round as early as possible. Snatch up a belt of strength, Helm of the Mammoth Lord & a few Quick runners shirts and as many potions of enlarge person as you can carry as soon as you can. Throw all that together and you with some proper favored enemies choices and your make those barbarians and twinked out Eidilons drool at your damage output.
I also liked the shapeshifter archetype, which only trades in favored terrain. It does not directly add anything to natural attack, but you need to take natural attack style as a requirement for the archetype. The interesting thing is that you get to choose a few bonuses you can use a few times a day.
The first one listed was the bear form that gives you +4 STR enhancement at the cost of a small penalty to speed, which is about the same as a bit of rage. At level 12 you can combine the bonuses and take the cat form to eliminate the speed penalty.
It's not a ranger, but here are two builds for natural attack ratfolks. One is a rogue and one is an alchemist. Link
I was playing around with this build for a villain and found it is pretty good at low levels but loses steam really quickly. Go for a high STR and take power attack as a first level feat. Pick up Aspect of the Beast as your 2nd level combat feat. Like Bookrat suggested playing a race with access to a bite attack would help tremendously.It only loses steam if you don't properly itemize for it. If you don't pick up your 4th natural attack by 7th-8th level then you can quickly fall way behind in DPR.
This build is all about high strength, Power Attack and multiple attacks per round as early as possible. Snatch up a belt of strength, Helm of the Mammoth Lord & a few Quick runners shirts and as many potions of enlarge person as you can carry as soon as you can. Throw all that together and you with some proper favored enemies choices and your make those barbarians and twinked out Eidilons drool at your damage output.
This will work for a player character as long as he has some way to purchase specific items. Since what I was creating was a NPC villain this does not work with the wealth by level restraints. I am also hesitant about builds that require specific named magic items to be valid. Not every campaign has a magic mart on every street. The other problem is getting special abilities on your attacks. True you can use amulet of mighty fists but they cost twice as much.
Since the NPC I was creating was around 4th level and not a recurring villain it was not a problem. He was human and I had the traits already picked out. Even without the bite he turned out pretty nasty.
I'm playing a changeling natural attack ranger and it works quicket well. Particularly if you go the hulking hag route and take mothers gift to enhance your claws twice. Works great at low levels, though ofcourse the restriction to just 2 natural attacks is an issue at higher levels. I'm playing it for an E6 game so it works out well.
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I was playing around with this build for a villain and found it is pretty good at low levels but loses steam really quickly. Go for a high STR and take power attack as a first level feat. Pick up Aspect of the Beast as your 2nd level combat feat. Like Bookrat suggested playing a race with access to a bite attack would help tremendously.It only loses steam if you don't properly itemize for it. If you don't pick up your 4th natural attack by 7th-8th level then you can quickly fall way behind in DPR.
This build is all about high strength, Power Attack and multiple attacks per round as early as possible. Snatch up a belt of strength, Helm of the Mammoth Lord & a few Quick runners shirts and as many potions of enlarge person as you can carry as soon as you can. Throw all that together and you with some proper favored enemies choices and your make those barbarians and twinked out Eidilons drool at your damage output.
This will work for a player character as long as he has some way to purchase specific items. Since what I was creating was a NPC villain this does not work with the wealth by level restraints. I am also hesitant about builds that require specific named magic items to be valid. Not every campaign has a magic mart on every street. The other problem is getting special abilities on your attacks. True you can use amulet of mighty fists but they cost twice as much.
Since the NPC I was creating was around 4th level and not a recurring villain it was not a problem. He was human and I had the traits already picked out. Even without the bite he turned out pretty nasty.
The helm is only one of like 7 ways to get an additional natural attack and the first that came to mind. And with the recent change to the pricing for Amulet of Mighty fists HERE it's become significantly cheaper to go this route.
For a 4th-5th level build though most of this is unnecessary as the 3 attacks a round backed with full BaB, an 18-20 str and favored enemy is already more brutal then most PC's can handle being thrown at them anyway.@lemeres The shapeshifter archetype is a HORRIBLE option. You are giving up so much in exchange for so little.
Remember the form of the bear gives you an enhancement bonus so it doesn't stack with a belt of giant strength or any of the strength buffing spells. The cat form is pretty much the longstrider spell but only lasts a fraction as long.
None of these buffs are worth giving up Favored terrain (remember it's an initiative, perception and stealth bonus that stacks with everything AND makes sure you can never be followed if you decide to cut and run away).
This is a BAD archetype, don't ever take it.
Gong piggyback onto this post, hope Mathwei comes back as his post I saw when looking up cornugon smash got me interesting in an natural weapon build.
This is for a PFS character. Reading some of the other posts there are a lot of options for mutli-classing a natural weapons build. Originally I was looking at going rogue/thug for 1 level then ranger. But 1 level in witch gives another natural weapon attack. So is another dip worth it for an additional attack? Is thug and going for the panic status worth it? Then there is Vivisectionist with mutagens, and Monk for improved unarmed strike which I honestly got lost reading.
So if I dip into thug, I'm pretty sure I would go Half-orc as I need to get intimidate up, all other build would be teifling
Rogue/Thug 1, Witch 1, Ranger X (half-orc)
Witch 1, Monk 1, Ranger X (tiefling)
Witch 1, Alchemist/Vivisectionist 1, Monk 1, Ranger X (tiefling)
How does Eldritch Claws and Amulet of Mighty Fists affect each other? Does a +3 AoMF phase out Eldritch Claws making it a waste?
I am a bit concerned about DR as almost every campaing has had something, animated statues, contructs, imp/devils, etc.
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@atarlostThe main advantage of going half-orc is being able to take Toothy as a race trait. The half-elf would have to grab Tusked instead and that comes with a -5 penalty on all full attacks. (Yes there are other ways of getting a bite but all are more expensive then this).
@Navanax First things first, Vivisectionists are not legal for PFS play, they were banned several months ago so forget about that.
Dipping into witch for the hair attack (and I think you mean white haired witch archetype, since the normal witch costs a standard action to activate the hair) is a valid option and one I have explored. However it does have several issues with it.
First it's damage bonus is Int-based so that adds another stat into the mix you need to spend resources raising. Second it's a half bab class so you are lowering your already low Bab. Now you have a problem hitting and doing damage.
The only way to really optimize for this type of build is to go Dex based with the agile enchant on your AoMF (cuts down on the MAD but can be expensive in cash and feats)
If you play a Tiefling there is no reason to play a ranger. The Ranger class is only there to give you access to the claws which a tiefling can get by swapping out his spell like ability (and then grabbing a bite attack from somewhere else). Go straight Fighter or Barbarian here and keep your BaB up with all the bonus combat effectiveness fighters get (or throw in some inquisitor/cleric/oracle/Magus if you need spellcasting as well).
This leaves you with the Monk... They can be done well but you'd have to give up your Flurry of Blows since you can't flurry with natural attacks (you could take feral combat but that's only for 1 natural attack and you can only take it once). This drops your BaB down and makes you an EXTREMELY MAD type of character with a low chance to hit and low damage overall.
As for AoMF and eldritch claws, the AoMF will NEVER allow you to pierce DR, it's based of the Magic Fang spell which specifically calls out it can't pierce DR. Eldritch Claws is always useful, Magic & Silver tends to be about 50% of the DR you run into in PFS and the things that have something else then you focus on keeping them intimidated or pull out your appropriate 2hd weapon and go to town that way.
One option you may have missed is the Tengu. It starts play with claw/claw/bite as well as a free unarmed strike feat. This gives them a lot more resources to burn customizing their build and actually has a good stat allocation for a druid or inquisitor build (which can be devestating if done correctly).
@atarlostThe main advantage of going half-orc is being able to take Toothy as a race trait. The half-elf would have to grab Tusked instead and that comes with a -5 penalty on all full attacks. (Yes there are other ways of getting a bite but all are more expensive then this).
@Navanax First things first, Vivisectionists are not legal for PFS play, they were banned several months ago so forget about that.
Dipping into witch for the hair attack (and I think you mean white haired witch archetype, since the normal witch costs a standard action to activate the hair) is a valid option and one I have explored. However it does have several issues with it.
First it's damage bonus is Int-based so that adds another stat into the mix you need to spend resources raising. Second it's a half bab class so you are lowering your already low Bab. Now you have a problem hitting and doing damage.
The only way to really optimize for this type of build is to go Dex based with the agile enchant on your AoMF (cuts down on the MAD but can be expensive in cash and feats)If you play a Tiefling there is no reason to play a ranger. The Ranger class is only there to give you access to the claws which a tiefling can get by swapping out his spell like ability (and then grabbing a bite attack from somewhere else). Go straight Fighter or Barbarian here and keep your BaB up with all the bonus combat effectiveness fighters get (or throw in some inquisitor/cleric/oracle/Magus if you need spellcasting as well).
This leaves you with the Monk... They can be done well but you'd have to give up your Flurry of Blows since you can't flurry with natural attacks (you could take feral combat but that's only for 1 natural attack and you can only take it once). This drops your BaB down and makes you an EXTREMELY MAD type of character with a low chance to hit and low damage overall.
As for AoMF and eldritch claws, the AoMF will NEVER allow you to pierce DR, it's based of the Magic Fang spell which specifically calls out...
Wow, lots of good information. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post.
Seems like I'm not going to get more then 3 natural attacks without gimping myself.I do like Tengu, now I'm thinking of a natural weapon tengu ninja, what are your thoughts on them?
Thug worth a dip? Or just try and maximise damage?
Regarding the amulet, am I not reading this right?
AoMF
Source is
"Does the amulet of mighty fists allow a creature's natural attacks to bypass damage reduction if the enhancement bonus is high enough (as noted on page 562)?
Yes. If the amulet grants at least a +3 enhancement bonus it allows a creature's natural attacks to bypass cold iron and silver damage reduction. If it is +4, it allows them to bypass adamantine damage reduction (although not hardness), and if it is +5, it allows them to bypass alignment-based damage reduction."
—Jason Bulmahn, 11/30/12"
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That's the new update on the AoMF and if you actually put a +3 enchantment on it (an actual +3 not 3 +1 enchants like vicious, merciful, shock) then it will allow you to get DR but that's 32000GP to get past just DR/Cold Iron since you'd already have magic and silver from the Eldritch claws. Useful but not cost effective.
Dipping thug CAN be useful if you want to build a fear bomb fighter. You'll need to pick up Enforcer or Cornugan smash and an AoMF merciful to make it work. I'm extremely happy with my fear build (my PFS judges not so much) since it effectively lets me ignore the need to buy armor or worry too much about my survival, if you go that route Thug is vital.
Now if you are planning a Ninja build then you qualify to take the Thug archetype as is (ninja's can take any of the archetypes that rogues can) so no dip neecessary but you're Bab will suffer. Not overwhelmingly so but you will miss a bit more. Ninja's however I'm still learning to play so can't give you much advice there but it looks doable.
So take Eldritch Claws, and only put Enchants on the amulet (merciful, etc)
Thanks again Mathwei!
If you play a Tiefling there is no reason to play a ranger. The Ranger class is only there to give you access to the claws which a tiefling can get by swapping out his spell like ability (and then grabbing a bite attack from somewhere else). Go straight Fighter or Barbarian here and keep your BaB up with all the bonus combat effectiveness fighters get (or throw in some inquisitor/cleric/oracle/Magus if you need spellcasting as well).
But playing tiefling and taking 2 levels of ranger would allow you to get the 3 basic natural attacks. While there are other ways to get the set, taking a bit of ranger to get a favored enemy and extra skill points might not be a bad idea unless you want heavy armor (would that take away Aspect of the Beast if it was taken as a combat feat?) Other options I've seen for things like bite would be a trait that requires you to worship a CE deity and a ring, which takes up a slot that might be important than a secondary natural attack. There is also the rage power that gives a bite, but that is another secondary natural attack though. At the very least, a ranger dip is a nice boost early in the game when most of the methods for 3 natural attacks require magical items and the like.
Suggesting monoclass barbarian might not be a bad idea though. Beast totem, which is often seen as the best of the totem rage powers, do give you claws while raging, and they are much better ones at that, if somewhat temporary. With greater beast totem, you are just an improved natural attack away from doing 2d6 claw attacks as early as level 10.
About the ways to use enforcer:
I don't know if it is FPS legal but as most natural weapons can deal slashing damage you could take the blade of mercy trait that lets you deal nonlethalwith slashing weapons without penalty.
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If you play a Tiefling there is no reason to play a ranger. The Ranger class is only there to give you access to the claws which a tiefling can get by swapping out his spell like ability (and then grabbing a bite attack from somewhere else). Go straight Fighter or Barbarian here and keep your BaB up with all the bonus combat effectiveness fighters get (or throw in some inquisitor/cleric/oracle/Magus if you need spellcasting as well).But playing tiefling and taking 2 levels of ranger would allow you to get the 3 basic natural attacks. While there are other ways to get the set, taking a bit of ranger to get a favored enemy and extra skill points might not be a bad idea unless you want heavy armor (would that take away Aspect of the Beast if it was taken as a combat feat?) Other options I've seen for things like bite would be a trait that requires you to worship a CE deity and a ring, which takes up a slot that might be important than a secondary natural attack. There is also the rage power that gives a bite, but that is another secondary natural attack though. At the very least, a ranger dip is a nice boost early in the game when most of the methods for 3 natural attacks require magical items and the like.
Suggesting monoclass barbarian might not be a bad idea though. Beast totem, which is often seen as the best of the totem rage powers, do give you claws while raging, and they are much better ones at that, if somewhat temporary. With greater beast totem, you are just an improved natural attack away from doing 2d6 claw attacks as early as level 10.
Tieflings have racial traits that give them claw/claw and a easy to get trait gives them bite. This lets them have three natural attacks at 1st level and doesn't care about class. The boost from ranger is situational (but proper choice can see it pop up reasonably often) but it's not enough of a reason to take the class.
If the OP wanted to go switch hitter ranger and take the archery combat style it makes sense and would be very effective but wouldn't work well with the fear build he wants.
Are we talking about the Mother's teeth trait? I just find it restricting and typecasting for force tieflings to worship a demonic god. GMs might frown upon such an approach, since you likely end up either evil or CN, neither of which spell team players. Also, it is a secondary natural attack, so it would take ages before he could even reasonably expect to hit with it regularly unless he gets buffs.
While I'll acknowledge, if he just wanted a couple of quick weapons that did not require unsheathing then just the claw/maw would suffice. But other classes use their regular feats to be proficient with archery (rogues, inquisitors) so it would not be that bad a move to choose natural weapon style if he choose to stay monoclass. Although, I will admit he will still end up a bit feat starved if he does so, but it is still a valid choice.
Just a dip into ranger for aspect of the beast and then pure archery fighter could work out quiet well. Two starting levels in a full BAB class, with decent armor and all martial weapons, 6 skill points per level, and a good reflex save would not be a bad path for someone wanting to go primarily fighter. Even a beast totem barbarian might want to take the dip so they have more to do when they are conserving on rage rounds.
I can see that working for a tiefling flavor-wise, since they can technically be half orc too, I do not understand why people keep on suggesting that for other races. I am a bit confused on the mechanics of this since the srd got its names rearranged, but this relies on the adopted trait, no? One cannot gain teeth through adoption unless they are magical like the mother's teeth (I assume they are, since it is a religion trait). I just reeks of cheese to me. Enough so I would not rely upon it for a build for another secondary natural attack.
Oh sorry. I was unaware that it was really offensive. What is the etymology behind it anyway? Precise definition too. The use of a common food item makes it hard to look up. The best I have ever found was urban dictionary saying it was a Starcraft term for over powered tactics. Anyway, I mostly just tend to absorb these kind of terms without thinking about them, so sorry if I was inappropriate.
Still, someone used the example of a half elf with tusks, so I do not understand how that is coming about. Maybe mechanically, but I am unsure of a way to conveniently say 'hey my half elf is also part orc and grows fangs and uses claws' without worrying all rocks falling. At the very least, I fear that it might be blocked by rule zero often enough I would not feel comfortable with it outside of a close knit group of friends.
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I imagine some sort of filing of one's teeth to fit in with their adopted family works.
For a Tiefling, they can be borne of two Orcs, so that's no issue flavor wise.
Poorly flavored abilities are what irritate most people.
Such a thing irritates myself.
I figure the stranger the ability, the better the story should be.
For me, I love being challenged with such things.
I can see that working for a tiefling flavor-wise, since they can technically be half orc too, I do not understand why people keep on suggesting that for other races. I am a bit confused on the mechanics of this since the srd got its names rearranged, but this relies on the adopted trait, no? One cannot gain teeth through adoption unless they are magical like the mother's teeth (I assume they are, since it is a religion trait). I just reeks of cheese to me. Enough so I would not rely upon it for a build for another secondary natural attack.
1) If you don't see how it could work for other races this might be a problem with your imagination instead of a problem with the trait.
2) Humans and most other humanoids (if not all) have teeth, so no need to gain them. Just that humans don't usually use their teeth as weapons doesn't mean that it can't be done. So the trait might just mean that your parents showed/told you how it is done. And some filing makes them lethal. Now and then there are stories in the news about guys who've very much hurt someone by biting them. Sometimes even life-threatening injuries. Did those all have magical enlarged teeth?
The very phrase 'tusk' implies over sized teeth. A pair of large teeth... like say found on an orc or half orc, that protrude from their mouth. I find that hard to acquire outside of magic. That description would work for the Mother's teeth religion trait, but not for tusked.
From the flavor text, which I'll admit I only got second hand from other discussions about the trait, implies that these are not as simple as filing with the phrase 'Huge, sharp tusk bulge from your mouth'. Now, I'll admit, the system gets a bit weird with all of these bite attacks, since the feat Razortusk has a similar effect, but you can take it at any time, which implies you can suddenly get over sized teeth like this by learning it or something (which is typically implied by it being a feat). Also, you could theoretically take the extra traits feat later on to get the trait which can make the mechanics and flavor even more confusing.
Over all, the related traits and feats are often poorly worded and implemented, which might be another turn off for a GM that would. I feel uncomfortable enough with them that I would not advise them for a build.