Okay, I have a newbie player who wants a Wizard. I am guessing that based on what I've heard, he's gonna take Evoker, and oppose Enchantment, Illusion.
Now, he wants his two highest stats to be Int and Dex, with his lowest being Str (kinda standard really).
I've come up with the following racial options, and I want to hear your arguments for which is best. The campaign is a dungeon crawl, quite lethal. That means close quarters combat, non natural environment, mostly short ranges, occasional swimming and climbing, not much light to see by, lethal traps, puzzles, highly lethal.
I have the core book, apg, arg, and some racial booklets. If you can, choose from this list of races, since I have access to all and they all have the bonuses he likes (int and dex)
Elf (this can be modified to have darkvision, etc)
Tiefling (standard or Grimspawn variant)
Dhampir (Ru-shi variant only)
Wayang
Sylph
Ratfolk
and the ever popular Human (although they have the worst vision, dunno if they can be modified to have darkvision outside of magic items)
I've already told him that Elves are probably the best option, since they get lots of funky racial abilities that apply to all forms of magic. But, he thinks they are way too common in fantasy as it is.
could go halfling or gnome. gnome gives you darkvision, halfling gives some bonus on climb and acrobatics. they are both small so that gives the obvious benefits with a few drawbacks. i know the cha doesnt help you much but the gnome gives con and the halfling gives dex for the other ability increase so both could be useful in the proposed dungeoncrawl.
I like tiefling a myself. Elf is great, but -2 con hurts.
Well, I was more thinking which is the best out of the short list I presented? Samsarans are nice as well, but they give a bonus to Wisdom, not Dexterity.
I think gnomes give a bonus to Con and Cha, not Int. That wouldn't work.
well if your interested just off your list, i like the slyph, the stat adjustments are the same as an elf but you get darkvision and if the dm will allow if you can change out the useless (for a wizard) air affinity for
•Air Insight Sylph spellcasters sometimes find that their elemental heritage makes creatures of air more willing to serve them. Summon monster and summon nature's ally spells that the Sylph casts last 2 rounds longer than normal when used to summon creatures with the air subtype. This racial trait replaces air affinity.
and with a 1/day feather fall to get you outta jam is just gravy on top
Android seems to have all you desire.
second this, it makes for a awe inspiring wizard.
Does kinda suck about not getting morale bonuses.
Where'd the Air Insight thing come from (book)?
I think a Handy Haversack or a masterwork potion belt (it's from the 3.5 Forgotten Realms books, 60gp, weight 1lb, holds 10 potions, only a move action to draw a potion, no inducing attacks of opp) would do as well.
Yeah, that and he could give up the elven weapons so that he'd get a +2 to casting defensively, that would be great since it happens all the time in close quarters.
Actually, to your typical Wizard, Dexterity is more important than Constitution. Touch spells, AC, and Initiative.
i copied it from the srd. i am not sure which book it came from maybe the advanced race guide??
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-sylph
you offer tielflings and not aasimars?
for shame
im playing an emberkin variant aasimar with a redic INT(22) which makes them ideal for evoking because their DCs are naturally higher than any other race can boast
it does really depend on the level you start them at, because i had a buddy who played a wizard who cast all the divination like spells on him s he could see everything including through magical darkness and real darkness, as well as any and all magical auras, and he had them all permanency'ed on himself
if he wants to go evoker, and he cant choose an emberkin, i would have him go elf for the bonus on spell penetration
picking human for the bonus feat is also a good choice
and you should definitely let him take the PFS variant that lets you give up Scribe Scroll at lvl 1 for Spell Focus-Evocation
cosmopolitan human (versatile human, same thing really) can give up the bonus feat at lvl 1 and the skill points (that you dont need because of your INT) for an extra +2 to a stat, pick either CON or DEX
is this a point buy or a roll game?
The stats are the standard 4d6, best 3 out of the 4 dice, do this 6 times.
He'd be starting out at 3rd level, since that's what everyone else has gotten to.
I looked at the emberkin aasimar, but it gives a bonus to cha, not dex. Figured it wasn't a good idea, since he didn't care about Cha too much. Tried convincing him to take a Necromancer, which would need a high Cha as well as Int, but no go.
Yeah, but the Tiefling skill bonuses tend to suck for Wizards. Stealth is nice, though. Cha is a lot more fun to roleplay than having a nice Con score, because of the skills. The entire group right now has darkvision, and the Highlander trait to grant Stealth as a class skill. The Cleric still clanks, though. Sucky dex and heavy armor.
Lemme check the arg.... It's okay, but nothing to write home about. Extra 2 rounds of air subtype duration if using Summon Monster. He did like the drawing of the sylph chick, I noticed.
or he could switch air affinity for •Breeze-Kissed Breezes seem to follow most sylphs wherever they go, but some sylphs are better able to control these winds than others. A Sylph with this racial trait surrounds herself with swirling winds, gaining a +2 racial bonus to AC against non-magical ranged attacks. The Sylph can calm or renew these winds as a swift action. Once per day, the Sylph can channel this wind into a single gust, making a bull rush or trip combat maneuver attempt against one creature within 30 feet. Whether or not the attempt succeeds, the winds are exhausted and no longer provide a bonus to the sylph's AC for 24 hours. This is a supernatural ability. This racial trait replaces air affinity.
have him opt out of the alt. spell like ability and offer him a bump to DEX instead, if he doesnt want an extra bump to INT
but enough of me defending the aasimar as a race, it really is the best race if you can convince the GM to give you nice things, only thing its missing is the bonus feat from being a human, but you can still do a lot with it
if he's gonna do evoking AND be a wizard, best thing i can say to do is plan on taking elemental substitution[cold] and let him get a rod of lesser rime spell with his 3000 gp that he gets for WBL
or just rule that he can apply rime spell with the admixture subschool ability
but the only way to make that work is with human as a race and taking the extra feat, because he's gonna want improved initiative, rime spell/elemental sub., and spell focus(evocation)
unless you go PFS style, then he needs one less feat and can do that with anything
are homebrewed feats allowed? if so I have a link for you.
That's actually a nice idea. I would have to run it by him. So far, you guys are saying tieflings and sylphs are the way to go, with a possible android (pretty odd choice, that one).
I don't know much about androids, their possible racial options feats etc.
I happen to be the DM, so maybe. If they are overpowered I probably would say no. I want the optional stuff to mesh well.
Dwarf
why dwarf? No bonus to Int, or Dex.
That's actually a nice idea. I would have to run it by him. So far, you guys are saying tieflings and sylphs are the way to go, with a possible android (pretty odd choice, that one).
I don't know much about androids, their possible racial options feats etc.
well here are some feats I made link check under wayang for android, if allowed that may help sway that choice.
Where's the elemental substitution feat (which book)?
I think the android doesnt really fit the campaign. I'm going for a eurocentric fantasy thing, so no monks, ninjas, samurai etc. Androids would kinda be more a science fiction element.
I'd say nothing longer than the 100 meter, those scholarly types tend to not be in the best sha... er, wrong kind of race :D
Ahem. Honestly, I agree with Atarlost; Ratfolk if you have them in your game and if the locals don't break out the pitchforks and torches when they see one...
We too have began a new campaign recently (we had a TPW) and I normally go for the Wizard. I have been a Wizard fan since I read "The Hobbit" way, way....way back in time. I have decided, though, this time I want to try something different, but the same. I really like the idea of playing a Gnome Wizard, except they don't receive +2 INT--which I find weird--but I really want to play one. So I am going with a Gnome Sorcerer Arcane Bloodline, who comes from a long line of Wizards and has been given a LifeQuest to "find his way in the Arcane' by his parents on his 40th NameDay. He thinks that he is a wizard, but who just has difficulty learning new spells from his book. It is a fun concept and allows for some great roleplaying. Havinf fun is what it is all about anyway...His name is Theodore Samuel Walden Glitterfounder.And he is a "Wizard"...lol
Well, I'll show him Ratfolk, but the major malfunction of those Small races is that they're damned slow in combat. And him being a giant rat would screw up how a horse sees him, so Ride might not be great, and that's kinda necessary to get to different places for the setups to adventures. The only way to fix their speed is to blow TWO feats on it, and that sucks. Mobility is kinda important whilst dungeon crawling! Feats are really precious. Also, lots of people don't exactly react well to Splinter of the TMNT, and I kinda don't think most Renaissance folk would either.
Yeah, I've been kinda avoiding tiefling and aasimar as much as possible, because they are basically super races. They can fit ANY class if you buy the racial booklets and the ARG, which I have. Also, that penalty to Charisma kinda sucks, since most bright types like to socialize. The game isn't simply about combat.
You know what? If I was running a gnome sorcerer, I'd go for the necromancy one, since you need a high Charisma to control undead. Maybe get into Enchantment?
Dwarf is great. Con/wis for more hp and better saves, conditional bonusses to AC, saves and CMD, stonecunning (hey, look, a trap/secret door), FANTASTIC racial traits and feats (glory of old! steel soul! boom +5 saves vs spells/like abilities!) and you're a DWARF.
+2 int is nice, but it certainly ain't the end all. Going for Improved Familiar to get an Ice Mephit is also a good idea. Give the guy a wand of magic missile and you can burst out great unavoidable damage next to the AoE madness that an evoker brings.
AoE?
And why an Ice Mephit?
I dunno, Dwarves are kinda slow, and since one doesn't have much armor as a Wizard, it's kinda best to be able to run like heck. But having a bonus to Int is kinda EVERYTHING as a Wizard. I don't know of a race that grants a +4 to Int or better. Even Humans make fine ones, since the bonus to skill points, the +2 you can assign to Int. It's just that they can't see for crap in the dark, otherwise they'd be a lot more popular when dungeon crawling.
Maybe I could get him to take an Elf, grab Toughness and Great Fortitude (along with +1 hp per Wiz level favored) to compensate for the lower Con score?
Personally, I kinda favor Universalist myself, because I don't want to lose all those fun spells that are great for screwing up opponents. I prefer not to damage them outright, just to really foul them up, like Sleep and Grease. But he's different, so I will go with what he likes to do.
Area of Effect. Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Sirocco, Chain Lightning.
Ice Mephits have magic missile as a spell-like ability. This lets them use triggered items that hold MM. An empowered MM followed by a quickened MM and then the Mephits 5D4 MM adds up quite nicely as an evoker. At lvl10 you can do 17D4+27 in one round. That's 69 damage on average.
Dwarves have 20f movement, but I rarely got into situations where that screwed me over. As a wizard I find that I need to be able to survive burst damage, spells and effects (such as poison). Dwarves help you with that. 25 point buy lets you start with 16 int & con and 14 dex and 10 str/wis/cha. You could knock off some points of cha and get some wis. The +2con/wis and -2cha mean you're one tough little wizard with great saves.
And sure, elves work. Taking toughness AND greater fortitude is quite the investment since wizards are feat starved.
PF wizards don't 'lose' out on spells. They just need to spend two spell-slots on one spell.
An evocation specialist can do a lot of damage with spells that give no save. Ray spells require YOU to hit, magic missile doesn't require anything. The 1DC you miss out on as a non +2 int race is neglectible, because you'll still do damage if they do save and guess what, many monsters don't have the best reflex saves out there. It's mostly fortitude that's a problem.
Enchanters and illusionists NEED to pump up their DCs because their spells are all or nothing. I can see why some people cling to the 'omg i must have more int' philosophy, but when you can take care of a ton of the wizards weaknesses by, for example, going dwarf, it's more than worth it to skip that bonus.
The evoker also gets to swap energy type 3+int times a day on the spells he cast. That ability is ridiculously good in PF. It MAKES the evoker the best nuker there is, because with a proper Knowledge:The Planes-and-others he can ignore many of the natural resists of monsters.
Samsaran bar none best race for wizard/witch/cleric/
whether you raid the bard, summoner or witch spell list.
you wizard bein able to cast, good hope, three fold aspect, silence, healing spells, or casting haste, summon monsters, blacks tentacles, raise deads, trumps 2 points of dex, every min, of every hour of every day
AoE?
And why an Ice Mephit?
I dunno, Dwarves are kinda slow, and since one doesn't have much armor as a Wizard, it's kinda best to be able to run like heck. But having a bonus to Int is kinda EVERYTHING as a Wizard. I don't know of a race that grants a +4 to Int or better. Even Humans make fine ones, since the bonus to skill points, the +2 you can assign to Int. It's just that they can't see for crap in the dark, otherwise they'd be a lot more popular when dungeon crawling.
Maybe I could get him to take an Elf, grab Toughness and Great Fortitude (along with +1 hp per Wiz level favored) to compensate for the lower Con score?
Personally, I kinda favor Universalist myself, because I don't want to lose all those fun spells that are great for screwing up opponents. I prefer not to damage them outright, just to really foul them up, like Sleep and Grease. But he's different, so I will go with what he likes to do.
+2 to int is powerful on paper, but it isn't the almighty game changer it is made out to be. i personally recommend not the +2 to int that seems so important, but some defensive bonuses.
at 3rd level, who cares if the dwarf wizard is slow? so is the juggernaught clad in full plate, that lame oracle, the overencumbered skill monkey that neglected strength, any character in non-mithral medium armor who isn't a 3rd level fighter with armor training or a 1st level barbarian with fast movement, and that anemic weakling who dumped constitution.
and prohibited schools aren't quite lost anymore, they just take twice as many slots to cast. and a better pair of schools to oppose would be enchantment and necromancy. illusion houses the almight invisibility, blur, and mirror image. 3 amazing defensive spells. in addition, most of enchantment could be arguably replaced by a decent diplomacy check, and necromancy has such a social stigma surrounding it within your typical setting, that dumping it makes it easier to avoid the stigma.
A fighter with Dazzling Display to shaken many of the enemies for a -2 to saves helps a lot. A well-placed prayer for a -1 to saves is also nice. These are only examples of how you can bring down someone's saves, but it also shows that sacrificing everything for a meager +1 to DC when you can bolster your character's weaknesses might not always be the right choice.
Load up your improved familiar with tanglefoot bags or give it to someone who might have spare standard actions. As long as it hits, it gives the enemy a -4 dex. That's another -2 to saves.
I'm always amazed at the lack of teamplay and co-ordination of abilities by most groups, but when you think about it, you can create some absolutely killer groups with very simple mechanics.
I forgot one more amazing addition to a 'save or suck/die/get hurt' group. Think a cleric with a big focus on Hold and Inflict spells with a rod of reach spell and the persistent spell feat, a wizard of any kind and so on.
The Dirty Trick Fighter. At 6 he can use all his attacks to make Dirty Trick attacks. He can shaken, sicken, blind and entangle enemies for minusses to saves. Shakening and sickening enemies followed by a tanglefoot bag from your familiar pretty much means that the monster is screwed.
Elf is great because you get an extra "spell penetration" and you can take the alternative racial feat for more initiative, plus the +2 Dex means more initiative and the +2 Int is just obviously good.
Samsaran is great for obvious reasons.
evokers really value the extra spell slots though because otherwise they run out of ammo quick, hence the +2 INT matters more specifically for evokers
raising DCs is also important for spell slot economy, because you want things to get the full spell effect so you dont have to cast multiple times to hit the same enemy
evoking also means you want added effects to your spells, not just spells, for battlefield control
emberkins are the only race i know of where you can get more than +2 to your INT score, im playing a campaign right now where i have an emberkin wizard with 22 INT at lvl 1, cant beat it
if you're a really nice DM and you like the prospect of seeing a super powerful wizard, you could let him have the +2 onto his INT twice (as if he rolled a 100 when selecting an alt. SLA) for a 24 INT at lvl 1
evokers really, really value the extra spells per day, which is another reason why specializing is so important for them, as it grants them a bonus spell slot for evocation spells
Actually, it's not just the bonus to DC that Int provides, it's also the fact that you end up with more spells per day. Seriously, didn't anyone notice that?
Samsaran are nice, I'll give you that. I don't know how useful that Wisdom is to a Wizard, however. That's kinda why I didn't think it was a likely choice. They are REALLY nice for opposing undead, which really sucks when as a class you suck rocks at the saving throws that undead like to use against you. Personally I think Wizards should have Reflex as their good save instead of Will, but that's just me.
Yeah, there's that one Aasimar emberkin variant option where you give up Daylight 1/day and get an extra +2 to Int, but honestly that's kinda.... munchkin. That race is so overpowered anyway, and besides, if I allowed that kind of thing, everyone would end up taking a Aasimar variant. No more races, no more interesting but odd abilities.
Problem, btw, with Dazzling Display is that most Fighters or warrior types have crappy Charisma. If the only reason why you'd have a decent Cha as a non-Paladin is for this ONE feat, there's gotta be something wrong with taking that feat. And to be honest, most Fighters don't bother with Int or Cha. Skills aren't the main attraction for warrior types, you know?
Toughness and Great Fortitude are feats that generally speaking, most Wizards would end up taking anyway, unless they put their 4th level into Fighter just to get Arcane Armor Training.
Gonna check out that Ice Mephit.
|
7 cha isn't a big deal to boost intimidate. At level 5, 5 ranks, +3 skill focus, +2 persuasive, +1 trait, +3 in class, +2 MW tool with that 7 cha is still +14 to the check. At level 10 your looking at 10 ranks, +6 skill focus, +4 persuasive, +1 trait, +3 in class, +5 skill magic item for +27. Ramping up skills isn't that hard to do as a fighter actually.
No way in heck is even a Fighter gonna blow a feat on Persuasive. Too busy learning how to kick butt, if you think about it.
How the heck does a masterwork tool somehow apply to Intimidate? What does his doohickey do, growl at people?!
Also, most warrior types tend to be skill point shy. Fighters tend to put their skill ranks into Climb, Swim, and Ride, for example.
If you're running out of spells you're not scribing enough scrolls and or buying enough wands and staffs. Five pearls of power will fuel loads of magic missiles every day and things like a rod of empower will boost your damage with lvl1-3 spells. Empowered intensified shocking grasps are good fun when you can change the energy type on the fly. 15D6 at lvl10 is nothing to sneeze at. And yes, that means you can make it a lvl2 spell with Intensify and use the rod to empower it for 15D6. If you're running out of spell slots, I don't know what kind of campaign you're running - and my regular DM puts it through hell and back.
But do as you want. I simply gave you a viable alternative to the +2 int races. Pretty much any race works. Even a race with a minus int could be made to work if you focus on buffs instead of spells with a save DC.
Fighters can easily boost their intimidate. Play a hobgoblin, enjoy your racial +4 bonus. Pick the feat Intimidating Prowess for str to intimidate. Keep cha 10 instead of dumping it down for more stat points. The inquisitor and oracle (wasting curse) can also boost nice intimidate scores. The DC for intimidate isn't that high to begin with, so maxed ranks with some bonusses should be more than enough.
Oh no, the one in the group I run just rolled really bad on a stat, so he stuck it in Charisma, and he took an orc for his race. For the most part, Fighters don't need Int or Cha.
All those scrolls, wands, pearls of power demand lots of dough. Problem is, when you are low level (currently the group I run is 3rd) you don't have that kind of moolah. Fought our way up from level 1. No metamagic rods yet. If he's lucky, he might be able to get a Headband of Intellect +2 at half price, because another PC is using it who doesn't use Int as their main stat, and he's replacing that PC.
See, these guys will probably take awhile to get to level 10, all that fancy gear isn't possible right now.
Don't Clerics do buffs better than Wizards?
Group buffs? Sure, in a way. A specialized transmuter with the right set-up can be fun. They get (self) buffs from lvl1 and up. With the nerfs to polymorph I suppose they ain't SUPER strong anymore, but a pure wizard or Eldritch Knight setup (for more BAB) should be playable. Get a reach weapon, stand behind the fighter and go to town.
And at lvl3 any wizard will be in dire straits when it comes to slots. Scribing scrolls should help, as it's quite cheap and affordable. A bunch of lvl1 magic missiles and enlarge persons will go a long way.
Enlarge Person sucks rocks. Look at it. The bonus to hit is negated due to the size change, so all you end up with is a measly +1 to melee damage.
Well, I figure just having a lot of Int would help his free force missile (8-9 a day on top of spells should be okay). If he needs something past that, some Alchemist Fire or a Heavy Crossbow should be good.
Personally, I tend to prefer incapacitation spells to outright damage spells. I find I do a lot more damage with a crappy dagger, Sleep and Color Spray than I ever could with a bunch of Magic Missile spells. But this guy would prefer outright damage, so fine by me, it's his PC.
Quick question, don't Blessed Books end up saving money in the long run, even if you buy them new as a Wizard? I can't recall how the math worked out.
Yeah, except for the fact you get reach, your weapon damage increases and the +2str also gives you damage.
Don't forget that cantrips can also be nice. Disrupt Undead in undead-heavy areas is a great cantrip and Acid Splash or Ray of Frost should hit more often than a xbow. A lvl1 scroll will set the character back for 12.5gp, hardly a big investment.
If you prefer that, don't play an evoker. Sleep/Color Spray are fantastic low level spells and often target saves that ain't too high. The 1 DC extra will help, but rarely will be fatal.
I wouldn't know. The cost of scribing spells has been changed in PF :) and it seems way easier on the wizard than the 3.5 rules.
elf!
there's a reason elves became sort of cliche- they're awesome. pathfinder has done a pretty good job bringing racial power levels onto more level ground (at least for the base races), but Tolkien basically just unapologetically made elves more powerful than humans and that influenced every version of D&D and there are hints of it in Pathfinder. +2 spell penetration doesn't seem like much at 3rd level but later on when you start encountering more and more baddies with SR its pretty great (remember, too, that that bonus will double if he takes spell perfection). and do not underestimate the value of their weapon familiarity. that will likely become less significant as they level but dungeon crawls tend to include more challenges per day than 'standard' adventuring- which means running out of (useful) spells may be a real possibility... for an elf with 16 Dex (and 10 str), "i shot him with my longbow" is a perfectly viable option until at least like 6th level- with an ok str, if he's willing to invest a couple feats and memorize some transmutations, he can make a longsword or rapier his bonded item and be able to threaten (since you only need one hand free to cast), and attacking with it to conserve spells can, potentially, be a viable option for quite a while.
Yeah, except for the fact you get reach, your weapon damage increases and the +2str also gives you damage.
Don't forget that cantrips can also be nice. Disrupt Undead in undead-heavy areas is a great cantrip and Acid Splash or Ray of Frost should hit more often than a xbow. A lvl1 scroll will set the character back for 12.5gp, hardly a big investment.
If you prefer that, don't play an evoker. Sleep/Color Spray are fantastic low level spells and often target saves that ain't too high. The 1 DC extra will help, but rarely will be fatal.
I wouldn't know. The cost of scribing spells has been changed in PF :) and it seems way easier on the wizard than the 3.5 rules.
The spell description doesn't say a thing about weapon damage increasing. Second, the bonus to hit you get from the Strength is negated from the size penalty to hit. That leaves you with an increased reach, lower AC, and +1 melee damage. Sucky spell.
This PC is not for me, it's for one of my players. I just wanted to know what race to recommend.
Being as low level as the group is, they just don't have the dough to spare for scrolls, wands etc.