Dragon Disciple or Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer?

[shinderhizzle84]

Hey all,

So I'm currently level 3 in my very first Pathfinder (and also d20) game and I'm playing a draconic bloodline sorcerer with a few of my friends.

I was looking at info for Pathfinder the other day and found out that there's a Dragon Disciple prestige class.

So other than the obvious differences in terms of hit points and strength bonuses upon levelling, do people think it's completely redundant to pick up Dragon Disciple when I'm already a draconic bloodline sorcerer? Is there anything better/worse than playing a dragon disciple as opposed to just sticking with my character as a sorcerer with the draconic bloodline?

My friend who seems to know a lot about d20 systems told me that it's basically redundant for me to take this prestige class, and that it's also not smart, because I'll probably be pretty bad at the end game--but I'm definitely pretty tired of sucking right now, and I thought that the whole point of the Dragon Disciple was that it's a great blend of up-close combat that can fall back on spellcasting if necessary?

I want to be almost purely offensive. My party has two healers, two buffers, and one de-buffer--so I kind of am the main offensive threat of my party. Does it make sense for me to become a dragon disciple when I can, or should I just continue to play as a sorcerer all the way to level 20?

Thanks!

[Hawktitan]

Dragon Disiple is in my opinion a pretty cool class, but takes alot of planning to really shine.

Simplified - Did you dump strength on making your sorcerer? If yes, don't go DD. If you have balanced Str and Cha or even favor strength slightly then go ahead with DD.

It's almost like a switch hitter, play caster or wade into melee as appropriate. Feats to consider are eldritch hertitage+improved (abysal or orc) for more strength. You'll also probably want to pick up an amulet of mighty fists.

One thing to remember is that BAB isn't super important when you are using natural attacks and have a super high strength score.

[shinderhizzle84]

I have 19 Charisma and 12 strength. And also 8 dex. By the way, what does "dump" mean? It sounds like it could either mean dumping a ton of points into the ability (like maxxing it out as much as possible) or dumping all of your points out of it (like putting 7 in it or something). Which one is it? I've been seeing the phrase a ton online.

[Cruven Carter]

It's the latter meaning for when you take the points out of that stat and dump it into another stat or two.

[shinderhizzle84]

Cruven Carter wrote:

It's the latter meaning for when you take the points out of that stat and dump it into another stat or two.

Okay, thanks. So then I guess what Hawktitan was trying to say is that for my particular character I shouldn't become a Dragon Disciple?

[Hawktitan]

12 strength is low for a dragon disiple, but at least it's not something like 7-8 so it's still potentially workable. Ideally you want something between 16-18 str and 14-16 charisma starting out, but not every character needs to be min-maxed. Can you give a full character sheet and say how your got your stats (array, point buy, rolls)? Would your GM allow minor rebuilds?

[shinderhizzle84]

Hawktitan wrote:

12 strength is low for a dragon disiple, but at least it's not something like 7-8 so it's still potentially workable. Ideally you want something between 16-18 str and 14-16 charisma starting out, but not every character needs to be min-maxed. Can you give a full character sheet and say how your got your stats (array, point buy, rolls)? Would your GM allow minor rebuilds?

My GM would probably not let me rebuild my character this far into the campaign, unfortunately. That being said, as a DD I do get +4 strength over levelling, so I would finish with a 16 STR rating. I rolled for my abilities so unfortunately I can't do much with them. He won't let me make minor changes to the ability scores, especially, because he wants the rolled values to be set in stone, at least until I gain more ability points to upgrade them.

Here is my character sheet:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By4UvhonbsWgamRaaXNESGp1X0k/edit?usp=sharin g

(Ignore the class schedule bit in the notes, we're playing in our GM's own-made setting in a, not even kidding, school-days setting).

[Hawktitan]

The link isn't working.

What about swapping a racial bonous? If you are human think you could talk your DM into swapping +2 cha to +2 str?

Anyway if I were in your shoes put your level 4 and level 8 level bonouses into str, get a belt of giant strength asap. Level 12 probably into Cha, getting the additional +1 is tempting.

Going into Dragon Disciple will get you additional strength as you noted. The Improved Eldritch Hertitage (abyssal) feats will get you an additional str bonous, polymorphing will also give a size bonus.

Next feats - Power Attack, skill focus knowledge (planes), Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal/Claws), Improved Eldritch hertitage (Abyssal/Strength of the Abyss)

[Darkwolf117]

shinderhizzle84 wrote:

I have 19 Charisma and 12 strength. And also 8 dex.

Your stat spread doesn't exactly make for a sweet Dragon Disciple but it could still be feasible. If you're gonna be mixing it up in melee, you'd ideally want high strength, fairly high con, and a bit of dex (though you probably can get by with low Dex. The most it really does for you as a brawler is up your AC and Touch.)

Ideally, I'd recommend more strength if you wanted to go into Dragon Disciple, but since it sounds like that won't happen, you might still have some success as it is.

Just remember however, it does slow your spell-progression a little bit. With your high charisma, I'm guessing you planned on going full caster, and that can work well. But it sounds like you're not finding yourself to be quite that useful yet, judging from the OP? Spellcasters get a lot better once they're higher level and have access to more spells, so delaying that could actually prove to be counterproductive (though DD's really don't lose much spell progression, there's still a bit).

But at any rate, since you can't go into DD until level 6 anyway (needing 5 ranks of Knowledge Arcana), and if the DM does refuse to let you do any stat swapping, I'd recommend just waiting to see how you feel by that point before deciding whether you want to go into it. You might find yourself being a lot more productive once you've got second level spells and more per day. Just be careful to take spells that should be useful pretty often (also... possibly avoid ones that use ranged attack rolls, I guess).

Now if your DM will let you rework your stats at this point, you can think about whether you want to go into DD or not, and make changes accordingly.

I believe you mentioned rolling for stats, so I can't really make suggestions on what you want for each but the general progression should probably be along the lines of: Str/Cha being your highest, Dex/Con being not too bad but less important (Dex less so, in my opinion), and Int and Wis being your lowest (though without a nice Int, you'll probably be hurting for Skill Points. At least there's a +2 in DD for it).

I don't know, it's a bit hard to say without some more specifics (like Hawktitan said, the link you posted isn't working). However, in the meantime, you can check out this really good guide. Actually, looking through it again real quick, Dex is ranked as one of your main dump stats for most builds, so weigh that against what I said above. Anyway though, it's got a lot of good information on building an effective Dragon Disciple in my opinion, so it might help you decide what you want to do.