Okay, so this might require a fair amount of prefacing.
My DM hates point-buy and the power-gaming it can promote, so he rolls stats this way:
Roll 4d6(drop lowest), assign to the ability score, in order.
If he likes the final set of ability scores(i.e. your primary scores are below 10 and you're probably CHA 16+), he gives you the roll and tells you to go with it.
The player can then make two scores 16s, or one an 18.
It admittedly does make us play characters far more interesting than we would have otherwise, although it's sometimes cruel to melee ones, especially Monks.
It has been ruled I am playing a Human, and I will use a two-handed weapon. Other than that, I have freedom on the matter. We have an Oracle, a Druid, a Wizard, and an Invulnerable Rager tank-barian. The first 3 are all going full caster, and I'm the only one who's played Pathfinder.
So, it's my job now to take a two-handed weapon and wreck stuff; I have to make that big bad very dead, very fast. I'm not going to play a Barbarian because I don't want to potentially outshine that player, and I simply can't roleplay a Paladin or Rogue.
My Ability Scores(before the freebies or racial bonuses) are:
STR 11, DEX 7, CON 15, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 13
What class would be the best for kill big bad very hard, very fast?
The options are probably Ranger, Magus and Inquisitor, the way I see it right now.
Oh, for the love of Cthulhu.
You have poor rolls for a melee character, you don't WANT to play a typical melee class so you don't outdo a melee character, and yet you want to wield a two-hander and kill stuff? And on top of that, your DM decides to randomly not give you a typical race ability?
Well, I have a reasonably good idea where those 16ths will be going to (and I really doubt having -9 dexterity is worth the +2 to strength when you can get 18 strength with the race special anyway). Luckily, the rest of your stats are decent.
Under the circumstances, I'd go with a ranger, using the animal companion as a flanking buddy and for support. If that's too common for the group, you can try a cavalier, monk (with some of the exotic weapons in Ultimate Combat) or magus, with inquisitor or bard coming in shortly afterwards. Frankly, I'd take a ranger (or ideally fighter) and focus on two-handed weapons with a bit of archery and maybe combat maneuvers; if the barbarian was tank-oriented you would probably not step on his toes too much. But if that's not an option, an inquisitor would likely be my second choice. You only have medium BAB,but you have plenty of ways to get bonuses - spells, feats, bane weapon etc.
Still, ranger (the "switch hitter" kind) seems like the best bet under the circumstances.
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You want advice on how to play a 2H melee character with an 11 Str and Dex 7? I would argue that your character with these stats would be very dead very quickly, even with racial bonuses. A -2 to touch AC is pretty bad and a +0 to damage and hit at low levels is equally bad.
If you are allowed to get the two 16s (unsure if you always get that with your GM or if it is dependent on his say so), put them into Str and Dex. If you are going to be a melee fighter, you absolutely need to put the 16s in Str and Dex for hit, damage and AC purposes. From there, you can go a ton of routes, but none really shine for 2H fighters.
Your Wisdom is low, so a shapeshift druid or a 2H ranger is a bad idea.
Your Str, Dex, and Int is high, so you could go Tiefling alchemist or magus, but neither of those are 2H fighters, unless Staff Magus counts. You could go Staff Magus/Hexcrafter archetype, but that is not full damage output.
By restricting yourself from Barb, Fighter, Rogue or Paladin, you essentially have said "I cannot play a 2H fighter" unless you start cross-classing.
Maybe go Barb 2/Vivi-Beastmorph Alchemist 18? You would get personal buffs, sneak attack dice, rage, mutagen, bite and gore secondary attacks, 2H axe/hammer/sword and bombs for the occasional ranged attack. I'd still go Tiefling to get the boost to Dex (for AC, ranged hit and reflex saves), Int (spellcasting stat, skills), prehensile tail, and fiendish sprinter (+10 to charge, run or withdraw).
Your final stats at level 1 would be:
Str: 16, Dex: 18, Con: 15, Int: 16, Wis: 11, Cha: 11
Go barbarian for the first level to get the 12 guaranteed hp plus the 2 from Con.
Pick up an Earthbreaker or Greatsword for solid two hand damage.
With a Chain Shirt, your starting AC will be 18 (Touch: 14, FF: 14) and your mvmt isn't hindered.
Take the extra rage trait to get 3 additional rounds of rage.
With this, you should be an awesome killing machine, despite 3/4th BAB for most of your levels.
Sorry, I could have worded that better. The poor melee class rolls were intended; he gave our now-wizard a default of 7 INT and 14 STR/CHA. The two-hander also isn't my decision.
I don't mean to make the DM sound cruel, he always gives us the 16s. Yeah, they were probably going into STR and DEX. And he'd probably let me not use a two-hander if I just talked to him about it.
I was considering Inquisitor for the hit-bonuses, and possibly going for the Spellbreaker archetype since teamwork feats are rather wasted with one other melee character. I could go for the Feather subdomain and get an animal companion, too. Not sure if he wants to learn how Magus works, haha.
Thanks for your feedback; it's helpful.
Make the STR and DEX 16's, put your racial bonus into STR.
I'd recommend one of the following:
Inquisitor
Samurai
Cavalier
Incidentally, why don't you get the human bonus feat? Are you trading that out for another option?
Make the STR and DEX 16's, put your racial bonus into STR.
I'd recommend one of the following:
Inquisitor
Samurai
CavalierIncidentally, why don't you get the human bonus feat? Are you trading that out for another option?
I was wondering that too, and just got a response from him; he says I was raised by cloud giants in the Fenwall Mountains, and says I can use a weapon a size category bigger than myself as a result. Which... makes the future seem much brighter.
Sorry, I could have worded that better. The poor melee class rolls were intended; he gave our now-wizard a default of 7 INT and 14 STR/CHA. The two-hander also isn't my decision.
I don't mean to make the DM sound cruel, he always gives us the 16s. Yeah, they were probably going into STR and DEX. And he'd probably let me not use a two-hander if I just talked to him about it.
But with 2 16s or an 18 it doesn't matter if your wizard has 7 int, since s/he will just put the highest stat there anyway. By handing those stats out, he will help you powergame more than if he just gave you a 15- or 20- pointbuy. It just seems arbitrary and borderline absurd.
Magus "works" fairly simply; it's a core gish class. As for inquisitor... the inquisitor teamwork feats don't actually require your buddy to have the corresponding feat, it's part of the inquisitor mojo. Plus, the group has a druid and oracle, at least one of these (and the druid's pet) will likely be a melee character.
I'd still favor a switch hitter ranger here. You have a fair few feats (which I'd put into archery - two-handers aren't so demanding feat-wise), light and medium armor proficiency, a pet at lvl 4 (which you can buff with boon companion at level 5) and a fair few skills. Inquisitors get more team support, but rangers are pretty decent damage-dealers.
Actually, in the ideal situation I'd say "cool, let me check the psionics section" and whip up a soulknife or a psychic warrior, if your DM can actually bother learning how psionics works in Pathfinder.
He might not let you put two hands on a weapon? What?
You seem to be given only the illusion of choice.
Are all of your players enjoying these strange, overtly contolling houserules?
Do they wish they were different?
Does the DM own all the books, or provide a place to game?
It doesn't bug me that much; like I said, our Wizard has a pretty high STR score. I think it'll work out in the end, because he's the kind of person who'd tone down the encounters if it was clearly overwhelming for the party.
He has the books, the tools, and we're playing at his house; I just bought the AP.
He does this mostly for fun, and none of us mind it. I just came to the boards to ask this query because, frankly, I was having a hard time deciding what would work best with my roll (mine is somewhat worse than the rest of the party, because I've played before).
Weren't you all rolling? How come your roll is worse than everyone else's?
Not to offend the OP, but I agree with pretty much everyone else that this feels highly constrictive and also borderline intentionally onerous, and this is coming from the guy who GMs 95% of his group's games. If he doesn't like powergaming he could just have everyone use the elite array, which all the pregens are build on, and the APs assume the PCs have. Intentionally giving class roles the minimum in their prime requisite scores just seems adversarial.
Switch-hitting ranger. 16 Str and 16 Dex are excellent for that, and with Int 14 you'll make a superb skill monkey (nine! points per level!) which does away with the need for a rogue, especially if you want to play an archetype. The Wis is disappointing, but by the time it matters you can bump it up. Con is fine for melee when it matters, and Cha is a bonus.
Go with archer style and a 2H sword; take quick-draw as soon as you can afford it. The barbarian can do the tanking while you do missiles and whatever front-line combat needs to be done.
Weren't you all rolling? How come your roll is worse than everyone else's?
Well he rolls until there's a roll he likes, and gives it to you, like I said above. He made mine ~5 PB lower than the rest of the group. Overall, we have very above-average ability scores.
Not to offend the OP, but I agree with pretty much everyone else that this feels highly constrictive and also borderline intentionally onerous, and this is coming from the guy who GMs 95% of his group's games.
I don't take offense to it, what you say is true. I just don't mind it that much.
RRRRRIGHT /gnashing teeth.
Btu yes, switch hitter ranger sounds great here. The wisdom is low, but you can raise it with the level bonus and the rest. Inquisitor would likely require you to put a 16 in wisdom, which means having a very poor dexterity, ergo armor class.
IIRC, the Rise of the Runelords wasn't bad for rangers; a lot of the enemies fell into several categories which makes it good for FE.
It seems it's a very good thing that I like this DM as a person and trust him to make this all fun.
And yes, I could get the full Ranger spell list with one level bonus in WIS and then a +2 or higher headband. It seems appealing. Flanking buddy and the combination of a weapon a size category larger and lead blades seems well-suited, as well.
Well, I think I'll go switch-hitting ranger, and make as much use as I can out of my larger weapons; the players' guide says the campaign has a lot of magical beasts, so favoured enemy won't be a problem. I'll give my DM your feedback on his methods; he's been looking for a more effective way or divying out ability scores, anywho. I'll tell him about the Elite Array.
Thanks for answering my query with so many constructive responses. I honestly didn't expect anything but rage to spew when I posted this thread.
So, what happens if your PC suddenly decides to not fight in melee, at all? Instant death?
What happens if your build begins to fall out of the set role?
Do you get to choose your feats and skills?
Uh, I guess I'll respond in order:
1) He'll give me some incentive to. One of our three casters would probably suffer.
2) He doesn't care what I build out of it, only how I start. Anything isn't explicitly third-party is allowed. If it's third-party, I ask him to approve it.
3) Yeah.
Actually, there is another option I initially missed when considering a ranger - putting a level or two in sorcerer and going for a dragon disciple. It messes up your BAB a bit, but you get a fair amount of extra strength, some bloodline abilities and a bit of sorcerer/bard casting. It might be worth it, depending on how you see your character.
If you stay a ranger, I'd say boon companion can help your pet work well, and remember to give it the right feats for the job. If it gets int 3 or higher (and you decide where its attribute bonuses go) it can take any feat it qualifies to, not just animal ones. Velociraptor with plate barding? You better believe it!
Actually, there is another option I initially missed when considering a ranger - putting a level or two in sorcerer and going for a dragon disciple. It messes up your BAB a bit, but you get a fair amount of extra strength, some bloodline abilities and a bit of sorcerer/bard casting. It might be worth it, depending on how you see your character.
If you stay a ranger, I'd say boon companion can help your pet work well, and remember to give it the right feats for the job. If it gets int 3 or higher (and you decide where its attribute bonuses go) it can take any feat it qualifies to, not just animal ones. Velociraptor with plate barding? You better believe it!
He says he'd allow me to get a T-Rex. I'm considering getting one with the full vital strike chain and making him regret that decision. Hehe.
Boon companion is allowed. 5th-level feat, no doubt about it.
I was thinking elephant, actually, but T-Rex could work. Sadly, the bear is a pretty poor companion by the system (why no brown bear companions, paizo...), otherwise I'd say join the ranks of the mighty bear cavalry.
Also, FE (Giants) will be worth it in this path. Trust me. Though if you are ok with playing a fighter,you'd likely find it worth it too. Fighters in PF are quite good at making stuff dead.
A stat block of
STR 16, DEX 16, CON 15, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 13
is pretty decent for any martial class. Wielding a weapon a size class larger than yourself is a pretty decent ability and I would take it for a feat.
The inquisitor makes nice use of your DEX since your best abilities work with either melee or ranged weapons. You'll have a pretty sweet skill monkey and melee striker. The barbarian will tend to be the first into any given fight which allows you some options in deciding if the situation is worth using a spell to buff yourself before going into combat, if you want to hang back and use a ranged weapon, or charge directly into melee. Also, you'll have plenty of skill ranks if you want to go with an intimidation based build (here having an oversized great axe would lend some credence to your case).
Probably the stat generation would be a turn off for me but whatever is fun for you and your friends is fun for you and your friends.
A stat block of
STR 16, DEX 16, CON 15, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 13
is pretty decent for any martial class. Wielding a weapon a size class larger than yourself is a pretty decent ability and I would take it for a feat.
The inquisitor makes nice use of your DEX since your best abilities work with either melee or ranged weapons. You'll have a pretty sweet skill monkey and melee striker. The barbarian will tend to be the first into any given fight which allows you some options in deciding if the situation is worth using a spell to buff yourself before going into combat, if you want to hang back and use a ranged weapon, or charge directly into melee. Also, you'll have plenty of skill ranks if you want to go with an intimidation based build (here having an oversized great axe would lend some credence to your case).
Probably the stat generation would be a turn off for me but whatever is fun for you and your friends is fun for you and your friends.
I think I'll just stick to Ranger, seeing as it would take significant investment to get all of my spells as an Inquisitor. Ranger is better-suited to the archery aspect anyway, I'd argue, just because the abundance of feats allows for greater versatility.
Inquisitor would be something fun to come back as if I died, though. I have a plan for playing one of them as well, if the dice gods don't go in my favor.
Also, Cornugon Smash makes for great fun.
Slap that 18 in Dex, nab the Dervish Dance feat, and Magus it up.
Put the +2 into strength, to get a 13 strength for Power Attack.
The sheer damage output capable with that, given a 15-20 crit range with keen... is downright terrifying.
he gave the wizard an int of 7
I can't stop laughing at this line. You are a bigger man than me if you can play in that environment where you play exactly how the dm wants. I would be too passive aggressive and keep the 7 int and be a wizard without spells. Gimmie the 18 str!
Much respect.