I am about to run Foxglove Manor in a few hours and was wondering how everyone handled this section.
Did you run the whole thing in initiative or did you just roll initiative for each Haunt?
However you did it, did it work out the way you intended?
Also, please, general advice on running the part if you would be so kind.
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I turned off all the lights and used candles for illumination. It certainly helped that I was at my own place with enough control over the environment to keep distractions at a minimum.
The key, I think, is to know that place backwards and forwards, since players can be a cautious bunch, peeking through windows or taking unexpected routes. I decided to go without the usual map and minis, and tried to describe it in detail -- partly because of the reduced lighting and partly because I wanted to get in their heads.
It was a while ago, so I don't know if I had everyone roll initiatives, or if I used another trick for that kind of stuff: having everyone supply me with about 10 to 20 d20 rolls ahead of time, and giving me their Perception and Initiative bonuses. That way, I could just consult their rolls and cross them off each time they got used, then describe what they see, and when they can react.
Hope this helps!
(some low, unobtrusive creepy music is helpful, too.)
I turned off all the lights and used candles for illumination. It certainly helped that I was at my own place with enough control over the environment to keep distractions at a minimum.
The key, I think, is to know that place backwards and forwards, since players can be a cautious bunch, peeking through windows or taking unexpected routes. I decided to go without the usual map and minis, and tried to describe it in detail -- partly because of the reduced lighting and partly because I wanted to get in their heads.
It was a while ago, so I don't know if I had everyone roll initiatives, or if I used another trick for that kind of stuff: having everyone supply me with about 10 to 20 d20 rolls ahead of time, and giving me their Perception and Initiative bonuses. That way, I could just consult their rolls and cross them off each time they got used, then describe what they see, and when they can react.
Hope this helps!
(some low, unobtrusive creepy music is helpful, too.)
Tonights game canceled last minute (love when players do that)
This will give me some time to compile a playlist and finally install that dimmer switch in the games room.
Plan to do it without maps or minis as well.
I used the high detail maps found on these forums, but I covered each room and only revealed them as the party moved through the house.
I had them roll initiative as they entered the house and stayed in that unless they left the house. I felt it helped add to the tension.
The players really enjoyed when one of them saw or was effected by a haunt I handed the description on a piece of paper to the player and had that player react to what they saw. The player(alchemist) who got the worried mother and tried to drag the ranger outside. The player played it up very well and got a hero point for it.
I really like the pre-rolling idea, I would have done it for perceptions or just rolled them myself if I were to do it again.
Nothing particularly special, but:
I drew up the maps (walls) in Inkscape, then used Posterazor to create printable maps at the right scale, and cut and taped them together. I normally draw rooms as the minis are moved around or right at the start of combat, but because the PCs can move up and down the house, I decided printing them ahead would allow floor swapping. PDF! Perhaps I'll also put this in the community content thread. It's not ultra high quality, but gets the job done.
As for haunts, I don't think initiative mattered, since they had no means of destroying the traps. If there were special effects for beating initiative 10, then that would have happened. They missed most of the haunts. I recommend widening the areas, or just expect not to run many haunts. They trigger off of the PCs' personalities, and if it's just the tank running in to check out rooms, most haunts don't get triggered. I didn't bother with perception checks because there's one PC who can't fail to notice anything apart from stationary invisible objects. I basically made it so that the perception effect happens at trigger time, as otherwise the haunts would simply not happen.
Has anyone run the Misgivings without the PCs really having much in the way of divine magic? Any adjustments?
I am thinking that if they do some research that someone will stumble upon 'haunt siphons' and maybe they will purchase a few?
My party that I dm for is:
elf magus
dwarf ranger
catfolk rogue
aasimar wizard
Don't point them towards haunt siphons yourself. A lot of the story of the house is hidden in the haunts, and they need to actually interact with the characters. If they use haunt siphons, they will miss out on story.
Protection from Evil will work much better. It protects them from the compulsions for a brief amount of time, but they can still experience the haunts and get the clues the haunts will give them.
Misgivings is about story, the history of Foxglove family. First run off wasn't really great, pcs didn't learn the story. Second time I had translated a hand-outs found from the forum and used those to handle haunts that affect only one PCs at the time. It worked nicely as PCs started to build a timeline about their visions. Then add creepy music and fitting lights, worked nicely. I didn't bother rolling initiative as my group didn't have real cleric with them so no chance to destroy the haunt before it manifested.
Only haunt that I dropped was the last one, in Aldern's lair. I thought that it would have made fight too hard for my players. I moved it to another location if I remember correctly.
It's been a while, but I had a ton more crows show up after they entered, kind of trapping them in, which turned out very brutal, but was just an awesome rp session. To leave they fashoned a wooden box and shuffled down the road to escape. I played up the whole "the Birds" aspect of it and didn't go easy on them as far as the haunts. Nearly all of them had some kind of disease, fatigue, and exhaustion by the final fight, which in the original seemed easy to me, but after all the debilitating effects of trying to rest in a haunted house they had a tough time of it.
For a long time after they harbored resentment to the manor that wouldn't burn, but all in good rp.
Well finally got to start running it this tuesday, and I think it went pretty well.
I got my dimmer knob installed, lit a couple candles (one smells like fruitloops, highly recommend) and used BombadeerStudios Grooveshark Somber and Darkness playlists in the background. I had setup a surround sound system in my games-room a while ago. So the mood was good.
They only managed to do the first floor due to mucking about in town for way too many hours first but I think they had a good time.
I used the printout cards with descriptions of what happens to their characters for haunts and the guy who got the one where he thinks someone is his kid and runs out the house with him loved it. This same guy when upon entering the house and seeing the piano went "Oh neat, I mash on a bunch of keys, does it play?". That was a fun way to start introducing Haunts to them.
I have a mechanical question about the haunts though, and it is most likely from me running them incorrectly.
So if I understand correctly, guy A plays the piano and initiates the haunt. I tell him he starts dancing with someone. At this point I got everyone else to roll their notice checks and those who made it rolled initiative for the surprise round. ect ect
Now in the rules it says if you have detect undead up you get a chance to notice the haunt before it manifests, now is this like when they enter the room with detect undead up they immediately notice the presence of undead in the room? Or when they enter they get to make a notice check at -4 to detect undead in the room? Or does it only ping undead when the haunt is initiated, but before it manifests on initiative 10? ect, could someone clarify how detect evil or detect undead works with haunts for me?
The way I understand it is that the haunt does not exist until it starts to manifest. So just looking into a room with Detect Undead will not show it, because it doesn't exsit yet. Once the guy plays with the piano (for example), then the person with Detect Undead gets to notice it, and roll for init with everyone else who made their preception rolls.
The way I understand it is that the haunt does not exist until it starts to manifest. So just looking into a room with Detect Undead will not show it, because it doesn't exsit yet. Once the guy plays with the piano (for example), then the person with Detect Undead gets to notice it, and roll for init with everyone else who made their preception rolls.
See thats how I understood it as well, but if you think about it then it doesn't REALLY make sense.
According to the gamemastery guide on haunts:
Detect undead or detect alignment spells of the appropriate type allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests (allowing that character the appropriate check to notice the haunt, but at a –4 penalty).
He doesn't automatically notice and get to roll initiative, he gets a change to notice at a -4 penalty...which he would get anyway...without the penalty if he DIDN'T have detect undead up.
Thats where my confusion lies, unless I am reading it wrong or not thinking of something then using a spell to help you see undead makes you WORSE at perceiving a haunt then not having the spell up.
In my opinion, with detect undead or detect alignment spells you get a chance to notice/feel the existence of a haunted area/item as soon as you get close enough for the spell (as soon as you enter the room for example). You gain a roll with a -4 penalty and if it's a success, you may even choose not to go near, or take some precautions. If not, you may have a second chance to make a perception check (without penalty this time) but then you only get 6 seconds to react in this threat!
Things I'm wondering if it will affect the difficulty of the house too much...
If the PCs are locked in and forced to explore the whole house?
All light sources are dimmed to bright light to 5 ft, and dim light another 5 after that? I want them to explore the whole house and be forced to interact with everything in there without attempting to railroad them.
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I kinda sorta "cheated" with respect to the haunts. Well, it's within the rules, but a little cheesy. I gave the entire house a necromancy aura, and it's possible for strong auras to muffle weaker ones. (Edit: wait, no, it's not as bad as that; detect magic doesn't work anyway! Cool I'm not a bad person. Nobody had detect undead or alignment.)
- - - -
BuzzardB, I think this is where you're confused:
Normally, a PC unwittingly steps into haunt area, or otherwise triggers the haunt, which then manifests, and a surprise round begins, with the haunt at 10 initiative. The PC rolls perception to notice the haunt in the surprise round. If a PC is a cleric who notices the haunt in the surprise round, and the cleric beats the haunt at initiative, the cleric could channel energy to harm the haunt.
If someone is using detect undead/alignment<X>, they can determine that there's a haunt there if they succeed at the perception DC, with -4 to their check, before the haunt even manifests. If they notice it, they can act on that information, e.g. stay away from the area, or prepare for it somehow.
I kinda sorta "cheated" with respect to the haunts. Well, it's within the rules, but a little cheesy. I gave the entire house a necromancy aura, and it's possible for strong auras to muffle weaker ones. (Edit: wait, no, it's not as bad as that; detect magic doesn't work anyway! Cool I'm not a bad person. Nobody had detect undead or alignment.)
- - - -BuzzardB, I think this is where you're confused:
Normally, a PC unwittingly steps into haunt area, or otherwise triggers the haunt, which then manifests, and a surprise round begins, with the haunt at 10 initiative. The PC rolls perception to notice the haunt in the surprise round. If a PC is a cleric who notices the haunt in the surprise round, and the cleric beats the haunt at initiative, the cleric could channel energy to harm the haunt.
If someone is using detect undead/alignment<X>, they can determine that there's a haunt there if they succeed at the perception DC, with -4 to their check, before the haunt even manifests. If they notice it, they can act on that information, e.g. stay away from the area, or prepare for it somehow.
Yeah I asked James Jacob about it and while I was in the middle of typing the question I noticed the "allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests" part.
So yeah, he can peer into a room with detect undead, detect a presence of undead then roll a notice check at -4 to get the little blurb about what they perceive thats haunt related (whiff of burning flesh ect) before they ever set foot into the room and all get the check.
About to run this portion in a couple weeks.
As mentioned upthread my party compostion will have an almost impossible time to actually 'defeat' any of the haunts.
So how should I reward xp for all the haunted rooms?
I was thinking that if they made their save to avoid any damage/effect I would give them xp, since it is unlikely that they will neutralize any of them. Theres over 30000 total xp to be had in this house, and they could fall way behind if all they got xp for is for defeating monsters.
Also, on the specific haunts, would I trigger them only if the associated PC enters the 'proximity'? Or maybe if any PC enters the proximity the haunts will still 'reach-out' and affect the specific PC.
I have one PC (wizard) who usually hangs back, and I can envision him staying in the hallways while melee PCs enter the rooms.
Also, how much info on haunts in general should I give the Players ahead of time? I have hinted that there are rumors of the Manor being haunted, but I fear that 2 of the newer players dont even know that Haunts are a game mechanic, and the other 2 saw haunts about 15 months ago in a separate campaign, but not sure if they remember.
About to run this portion in a couple weeks.
As mentioned upthread my party compostion will have an almost impossible time to actually 'defeat' any of the haunts.So how should I reward xp for all the haunted rooms?
I was thinking that if they made their save to avoid any damage/effect I would give them xp, since it is unlikely that they will neutralize any of them. Theres over 30000 total xp to be had in this house, and they could fall way behind if all they got xp for is for defeating monsters.Also, on the specific haunts, would I trigger them only if the associated PC enters the 'proximity'? Or maybe if any PC enters the proximity the haunts will still 'reach-out' and affect the specific PC.
I have one PC (wizard) who usually hangs back, and I can envision him staying in the hallways while melee PCs enter the rooms.Also, how much info on haunts in general should I give the Players ahead of time? I have hinted that there are rumors of the Manor being haunted, but I fear that 2 of the newer players dont even know that Haunts are a game mechanic, and the other 2 saw haunts about 15 months ago in a separate campaign, but not sure if they remember.
1) RAW, they get the XP for surviving the haunt, not just neutralizing it.
XP: This is the amount of XP to award the PCs for surviving the haunt, as determined by its CR.
2) The haunts say when they trigger, for example:
This room's haunt activates as soon as the PC haunted by vengeance approaches within 5 feet of the scarf.
3)I asked James Jacobs the same thing and this is what he had to say on the matter.
@buzzardb
wow thanks for all the info!
It seems if I run this way, many haunts wont even trigger, thus there will be nothing for them to survive and no Xp to give out.
Anyhow, players will always surprise me with what they do, so I am probably worrying over nothing.
I personally activated every haunt, regardless of whether the pre-assigned PC activated as per the way its written. The mansion isn't really there to kill the players as it is there to tell a story, and I wanted them to see the story. So I did what needed to be done.
One thing I dislike is how Iesha breaks through the floor bypassing the basement. If the players follow her they also too may bypass the basement and miss out on two of the more important story pieces, Vorel completing his Phylactery and Kasanda mucking it up for him. Thus explaining, somewhat, the fungus and mold they will encounter with Aldern.
From experience, it seems likely that the party will have their meat shield open the doors in case there are monsters, or perhaps elect someone else (with good saves, perhaps) to do that. Or, even worse, take turns. This reduces the probability of any haunts being triggered, and deprives them of story and XP. Or, they end up forcefully triggering all the traps by having everyone hop into the room, and then it just feels forced. So, making them universal might help there.
Additionally, a party with Detect Magic may be in the habit of scanning for magic items, and not seeing any, won't trigger haunts that are based on opening a drawer, or such. This is where having the entire house have a strong aura of necromancy helps, since it prevents scanning through walls (via one strong aura overwhelming weaker ones). The party can still open doors, though, and then scan, unless you want the furniture affected, which is fine, but I personally prefer just the house's walls.
So the best thing might be to:
1. Make the haunts universal. Perhaps provide a small bonus to the save if the haunt would normally not be tied to that character. Though if you don't want to do the personality analysis, that's fine, too. The save DCs aren't that high. Some are potentially lethal, though.
2. Put a strong necromancy aura in the entire house. Particularly strong magic items, however, should be noticeable, even with all the necromancy magic being noisy.
@stazamos
great advice.
Thanks to this thread, I feel much better about running this section
I just ran the main floor and upper floor this past weekend, and a lot of my concerns turned out not to be much of an issue.
As advised above, i tried to focus on the telling of the foxglove story, and not so much to the mechanics, and it went well, with some tense moments.
Our brave catfolk immediately wanted to go down the well. So after he lowered down via a rope, he tried to be stealthy but the skaveling heard him, luckily, the catfolk won initiative and was able to get back up the rope before the skaveling could get to him.
So the party decides to go the 'standard' route.Some hi-lights--->
-Our ranger almost got phantasmal-killed but luckily made the fort save
-Our brave catfolk decides he is going to wear the fine scarf of Iesha's (they have not been to the attic yet, so that should be interesting)
-On the suicide haunt, the ranger and rogue both see the dagger simultaneously, so they roll init, and the rogue(catfolk) wins, and would have killed himself, but i saw the line about how if anyone tries to prevent, he attacks that person instead, so thank god no suicides.
-In the gallery, the whole party happily wipes off the grime of all the pictures, but lucky for them , they all made their fort saves, so no one is plagued...yet.
Next month we will finish the attic, basement and cavern. Should be fun
So the best thing might be to:
1. Make the haunts universal. Perhaps provide a small bonus to the save if the haunt would normally not be tied to that character. Though if you don't want to do the personality analysis, that's fine, too. The save DCs aren't that high. Some are potentially lethal, though.
2. Put a strong necromancy aura in the entire house. Particularly strong magic items, however, should be noticeable, even with all the necromancy magic being noisy.
I assigned haunt types to specific PCs, but when it became apparent that they were mostly sending in the rogue ahead to scout, I decided on-the-fly that if the keyed PC wasn't in the room, the haunt would be triggered by whomever was there. So, in cases where there were multiple PCs in the room, the haunt manifested on the appropriate PC; if not, the story element still happened.
I play that detect magic can't see through barriers. A door, or a drawer, or a chest blocks line of effect. It's a 0-level spell, after all, so it shouldn't give you X-ray vision. That way, PCs are inclined to open the drawer/chest/closet. Of course, adventurers should want to open such things anyway...