| Grayfeather |
Two parts here, unfortunately its a tricky set of questions:
1.) Lets say you want to charm an undead (suspend your disbelief). You have Heighten spell so you really want it to stick so you pump it up to a 7th level slot. You have a lessor Threnodic Spell so you could apply the spell normally. Question is if the Heighten spell for purposes of the rod is a 1st or 7th level spell? Also can the order of the rod/feat combo be switched so it works?
Bonus question: Does an undead humanoid count as just an undead or humanoid for purpose of a "person" for Charm Person once the Threnodic Spell feat is applied?
2.) Same scenario as above but the spell is a spell perfection spell so the Heighten is "free" making the spell a 1st level slot again. Rod works correct?
| Kayerloth |
Heighten makes it a 7th level spell if you "pump" it up that high. I don't know what the official PF ruling would be but I'd say you are stuck considering it a +6 bump either way (regardless of order). I'd also be inclined to say Spell Perfection has no effect on Heighten as the variable increase is decided by the caster ... or aka if you didn't bump the level up with Spell Perfection you also wouldn't bump the DC etc..
But again that's just how I'd handle it unless I see an official (or unofficial but well thought out) ruling I could agree with as a home ruling (or get involved in PFS play).
Edit: As for the bonus question I'd say if the 'underlying' template was humanoid then yes Threnodic Spell feat would make them legal targets for Charm Person.
| Grayfeather |
Heighten makes it a 7th level spell if you "pump" it up that high. I don't know what the official PF ruling would be but I'd say you are stuck considering it a +6 bump either way (regardless of order). I'd also be inclined to say Spell Perfection has no effect on Heighten as the variable increase is decided by the caster ... or aka if you didn't bump the level up with Spell Perfection you also wouldn't bump the DC etc..
But again that's just how I'd handle it unless I see an official (or unofficial but well thought out) ruling I could agree with as a home ruling (or get involved in PFS play).
Edit: As for the bonus question I'd say if the 'underlying' template was humanoid then yes Threnodic Spell feat would make them legal targets for Charm Person.
Why are you saying stuck at a +6 bump. I don't see anything on Heighten spell that says you can't make a 0 level spell a 9th level.
| Kayerloth |
No, I agree you could bump it as high (or not) as you wanted, at least without getting into Epic level stuff. All I was trying to say is to get the DC of a 7th level spell (your example) with Heighten you'll have to consider it 7th (which is +6 spell levels) and Spell Perfection won't get around that. You won't get that +6 (or +8 if bumped to 9th) for 'free' by using Spell Perfection. Likewise the order in which you apply metamagic feats won't alter the final spell level and the spell is 1st (if we are talking about Charm Person) for the purposes of the Rod working or not. Basically Heighten doesn't work quite like the rest of the metamagic feats. It doesn't have a 'fixed' cost which can be altered by other metamagic feats or abilities.