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Total defense and quickened spells.
A strange thing that has come up in a magus discussion:
- when using total defense you can't make attacks of opportunity and use up a standard action;
- you can cast a quickened spell as a swift action;
- so it is possible to cast a quickened shocking grasp and use spellstrike to attack with your weapon.
What are the attacks modifiers in that situation?
Casting any quickened spell with an attack roll it is possible to get an attack while using total defense for any spellcasting class, so I think it is fairly important question for plenty of characters.
If it is not possible to cast quickened spells with a to hit roll when using total defense, it is possible to cast other quickened offensive spells that don't require a to hit roll, like magic missile?
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An ability or magic item that allow you to make an attack as a quick action will allow you to make that attack while using total defense?
At what modifier?
it is possible to cast a quickened shocking grasp and use spellstrike to attack with your weapon.
Unlike James Jacobs, I don't see any possible reason you couldn't.
Total Defense: "You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round. Your AC improves at the start of this action. You can't combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat. You can't make attacks of opportunity while using total defense."
Making the attack granted by a quickened touch spell is not an attack of opportunity, it's a free action.
What are the attacks modifiers in that situation?
Total Defense has no attack modifiers.
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What are the attacks modifiers in that situation?Total Defense has no attack modifiers.
ant that is the core of the problem and the reason of james reply, I think.
If I am fighting defensively my quickened shocking grasp suffer from a -4 to hit. I get a +2 dodge bonus to my AC.
If I use full defense my quickened shocking grasp has no to hit modifier and I get a +4 dodge bonus to my AC.
A bit weird.
If I am fighting defensively my quickened shocking grasp suffer from a -4 to hit. I get a +2 dodge bonus to my AC.
Unless you used the quickened spell (and the attack it granted) before fighting defensively.
Anyway, if the intent behind Total Defense was that you cannot make any attacks while using it, the rules should probably mention that somewhere. They could just remove "of opportunity" from the text and then it would work that way.
(The other problem with Total Defense is that "while using total defense" could apply only to the standard action it requires, rather than referring to the entire period of time in which you benefit from having taken the action.)
if you use the quickened spell before activating total defense there is no problem, after that you can't because you don't threaten anymore
So you're saying it goes like this:
Character is unable to make an attack of opportunity
Thus, character does not threaten
Thus, character is unable to make melee attacks
Yes?
How does this differ from someone who has already used their attack of opportunity? If they don't have combat reflexes, they can't take another AoO, so they should no longer threaten, so they should be unable to make attacks, right?
Or, you are unarmed and do not have improved unarmed strike, therefore you do not threaten, therefore you cannot attack?
in my opinion, it is the intend of this special combat action to gain a significant boost to defense at the expense of all offensive options.
Ah, gotcha. I thought you were saying total defense doesn't permit you to attack because you don't threaten.
It may very well be that I am overreaching with my interpretation, but to me total defense always meant defense at the expense of everything else.
What about casting a quickened offensive spell, like fireball?
What about channeling energy to harm? (quick channel)
What about feinting? (With improved feint)
What about maintaining a grapple? (With greater grapple)
What about using the Aid Another action with Team Up?
The rules should be clear if they disallow all hostile actions, all attacks, all attacks with attack rolls, all melee attacks, or just melee attacks with weapons.
-edit- I'm not being hostile or anything, just trying to get an idea of exactly what it is people think TD is supposed to do and why they think that.
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No I'm not saying that this extends beyond the full defense action. I'm saying that, in my opinion, it is the intent of this special combat action to gain a significant boost to defense at the expense of all offensive options.
What happen when you are using a offensive spell that don't require a to hit?
If you use quick channels to harm all the undead in the vicinity?
"All offensive options" is a big,big set of options.
Or if you use a quickened CLW? It require a touch but not an attack?
Or if used against an undead it require an attack roll. So it can be used to harm an undead but it can be used to heal a friend?
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So you're saying it goes like this:
Character is unable to make an attack of opportunity
Thus, character does not threaten
Thus, character is unable to make melee attacksYes?
How does this differ from someone who has already used their attack of opportunity? If they don't have combat reflexes, they can't take another AoO, so they should no longer threaten, so they should be unable to make attacks, right?
Well, that doesn't make sense. You threaten all squares you are able to make a melee attack into, whether or not you are able to take an AoO. Otherwise you'd stop giving a flanking bonus once you've used up your AoO for the round.
Well, that doesn't make sense. You threaten all squares you are able to make a melee attack into, whether or not you are able to take an AoO. Otherwise you'd stop giving a flanking bonus once you've used up your AoO for the round.So you're saying it goes like this:
Character is unable to make an attack of opportunity
Thus, character does not threaten
Thus, character is unable to make melee attacksYes?
How does this differ from someone who has already used their attack of opportunity? If they don't have combat reflexes, they can't take another AoO, so they should no longer threaten, so they should be unable to make attacks, right?
I have to agree with Weirdo. The concept of 'threatening' does not depend on your actual ability to make an attack; it is the fact that you are within reach of hitting the opponent with your melee weapon - the opponent does not know you are incapable of hitting him, and so must divert some of his attention (and defense) against both you and the other person flanking him.
As to the original question: RAW, there is no reason why you cannot cast a Quickened spell and then deliver it via Spellstrike; total defense does not make any mention of depriving you of swift actions, Quicken Spell lets you cast a spell as a swift action (rather than a standard), and Spellstrike allows the magus to choose to deliver his touch spells with his blade.
Now, it may be that total defense was meant to operate by depriving you of any sort of offensive ability, regardless of the type of action - but nothing in the text currently indicates that. I believe if you go back to 3.5, the text did include specific statements that you were foregoing any type of attack or offensive action in order to gain the additional AC.