Feats for a reach cleric?

[insaneogeddon]

Combat Reflexes is a given any others?

Stand Still only works on those adjacent
Power Attack is worthless as you have to declare it which you cannot do if your not attacking just being opportunistic.

[Krome]

PRD wrote:

Power Attack (Combat)

You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

PRD wrote:

Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don't have to make an attack of opportunity if you don't want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you've already attacked in the round.

Now reading as written, maybe not as intended (but intent does not trump as written), You can use Power Attack to make AoOs. An attack of Opportunity is an attack roll, you must declare use before you make an attack roll. Does not say before a standard attack, or full attack, or any other requirements.

By the way, Combat Casting is terribly useful. There WILL be times when you want to cast a spell and your opponent WILL be adjacent to you, and ready to knock the snot out of you when you cast. Casting defensively has a steep price (15 + 2x spell level) so the added +4 comes in handy.

Improved Trip of Improved Disarm are also quite useful. Hard for the opponent to threaten your spells (or do any substantial damage) when you take his weapon away. Or you can Trip him and take AoOs when he tries to stand back up.

[Stome]

That is indeed how PA works and I honestly don't feel it was unintended. Though a side note is PA last until your next turn. So if you used it on your turn and then get an AOO you don;t have a choice in the matter PA is active. Even if you wish it wasn't heh. But yeah there is no action to declaring it. So it does not have to be your turn. Its less then a free action its a none action. Like say a archer drawing an arrow which can also be done out of turn.

As for feats lunge is great. Being able to attack at 15ft is nice in itself. You don't threaten to 15ft but still it gives very nice flexibility.

[Erikkerik]

Power attack is good, you can use it AoO's as the above player demonstrates, and believe me, you'll be hitting stuff when not making AoO's also. Maybe not worth it though.

The trip feats are good if you can afford them. But probably to much of an investment unless you are an battle oracle (which you are not).

Tougness is good, improved initiative is good.

Spell focus conjuration, augment summoning, sacred summons, augment summoning. That's your 4 first feats (asfter combat reflexes maybe)

Divine interference is full of win.

[Twigs]

insaneogeddon wrote:

Power Attack is worthless.

DON'T YOU EVER SAY THAT AGAIN YOU BAD MAN

[insaneogeddon]

Fair enough.

How do you get past not being able to hit? Paizo modules along with DMs playing creatures well means the ACs are pretty good and you rarely have rounds to buff unless your DM is being soft and/or stupid. Power attack makes it worse.

A cleric of sheylyn with their gods fav weapon (glaive), Channel Smite and Guided Hand for WIS to hit seems like a get round - the love sub-domain would come in real handy to avoid attacks of opportunity from casting or any other source as a immediate action

But even then needing spell pen, Quick Channel and maybe even selective channel (if your party uses blasters or otherwise spreads their attacks among many foes) - never mind the suggested feats above - makes for feat starvation.

If you cannot hit the reach thing becomes a waste - if its actually (as opposed to theoretically) in game without using wisdom then a conductive weapon enhancement and the repose domain becomes viable. Its almost foolish swapping a touch attack for a normal attack but being able to hit with reach and stagger is perfect to lock opponents.

Gentle Rest (Sp): Your touch can fill a creature with lethargy, causing a living creature to become staggered for 1 round as a melee touch attack. If you touch a staggered living creature, that creature falls asleep for 1 round instead. Undead creatures touched are staggered for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier

Conductive: A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on a melee or ranged touch attack to hit its target (such as from a cleric's domain granted power, sorcerer's bloodline power, oracle's mystery revelation, or wizard's arcane school power). When the wielder makes a successful attack of the appropriate type, he may choose to expend two uses of his magical ability to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent, who takes the effects of the weapon attack and the special ability. (If the wielder has unlimited uses of a special ability, he may channel through the weapon every round.) For example, a paladin who strikes an undead opponent with her conductive greatsword can expend two uses of lay on hands ability (a supernatural melee touch attack) to deal greatsword damage and damage from one use of her lay on hands. This weapon property can only be used once per round, and only works with magical abilities of the same type as the weapon (melee or ranged).

Moderate necromancy; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, spectral hand; Price +1 bonus.

[insaneogeddon]

Eldritch Heritage, the Fey Bloodlines 'laughing touch' and a conductive weapon on a lock down build I had as an NPC was pretty effective on a whip master bard and phalanx fighter using reach weapon one handed combo i made to keep the players on their toes.

But gentle rest can be repeated on a foe more than once per 24 hrs which makes it far better never mind the double stagger = sleep (coup de grace) potential.

Its tempting to use the divine strategist to cut the need for channel feats but channel energy seems to handy to give up exp. when can do as a swift action with a feat.

[Stome]

3/4 BaB in no way has nearly as hard of a time hitting as you make it out to be. Unless you are trying to do to much. The fact of the matter is if you want to be a battle you need have a high str and lower wis (Channel smite and guided weapon is way to costly and channel smite is just bad.)

By your feat list you have spell pen. Meaning you intend to use spells on foes. Which really just isn't going to work. A battle cleric should never use any spell with a save. If you want to use offensive spells then you need a high wis caster cleric.

In short you can't do it all. You need to focus on eon or the other.

[insaneogeddon]

Thats 3.5 talk. 3/4 BAB was never bad but now every full bab class has extra sources of hit and damage.

3/4 bab, no one stat focus, no extra sources of class ability instant/eternal hit and damage, and no spare feats for simple things like weapon focus make for a dubious melle damage source.

No need to give up casting:
Sheylin: Glaive.
Domains:
Charm (love) -for immediate action immunity to melle.
Fervour (inquisition) -for a free quicken once per day to pop righteous might (reach, hit, DR) or just divine power.

Human
B. Channel Smite, 1. Guided Hand, 3. Quick Channel, 5. Selective Channel, 7. Spell Pen

Seems like a build that would actually work in play against a hard module or a challenging DM.

With quick, swift and immediate actions, attacks of opportunity and spells you can basically do 3-4+ actions in a round when the going gets tough.

Your spells (best resource) don't suffer as all you do is max wis as well!

Its a less than ideal build themantically and I wish I could make a effective Dwarven Torag cleric (i like the theme) - Protection (defence) makes for all the great wizard and druid AC spells and with the Terrain Domain: Caves adds tremor sense and deeper darkness for concealment and the inability to be targeted seems sweet but in a party I imagine that tactic would just hamper other pcs and be a standard boring cleric with better AC which would just add being ignored to the boredom.

In which case if you dont care for other PCs the Pharasma Death/Repose cleric doing inflict wound channels while healing is a better way to be effective and hamper fellow PCs.
Repose/Water (ice) might be worth it for a caster cleric- 3+wis touch and a 3+wis ranged attack added to a great blasting spell list is a decent combo for a caster that sometimes needs to save on spells.

[vermura]

Not a cleric, but this is a Oracle of Flame I made for a recent game. Why Oracle of Flame? Role playing reasons actually. However, they are a very effective character.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=518743

Don't worry about commenting on my magic item selection, it was all restricted by the DM, so no uber metamagic rods etc.

I'm ignoring the power attack route, instead, I'm looking to simply add lots of extra dice to my attacks with the longspear.

Before combat buffs, they poke people for 1d8+9+1d6 fire +2d6 holy at +17/+12. Presuming the opponent is evil and not resistant to fire, the average damage is then 24. Not utterly devastating, but useful damage all the same. Note that this improves quite a bit by using buffs.

I am using just two combat feats: Weapon focus (helps me hit) and combat reflexes. All other feats went into spell casting, this is after all, a lvl 12 caster I have here.

I made this character for flavor, but they have a lot of flexibility. I'd like to make special mention of gaze of flame. Being able to see perfectly through obscuring mist and wall of fire? Very damn handy.

[vermura]

insaneogeddon wrote:

No need to give up casting:
Sheylin: Glaive.
Domains:
Charm (love) -for immediate action immunity to melle.
Fervour (inquisition) -for a free quicken once per day to pop righteous might (reach, hit, DR) or just divine power.

Human
B. Channel Smite, 1. Guided Hand, 3. Quick Channel, 5. Selective Channel, 7. Spell Pen

Seems like a build that would actually work in play against a hard module or a challenging DM.

With quick, swift and immediate actions, attacks of opportunity and spells you can basically do 3-4+ actions in a round when the going gets tough.

Your spells (best resource) don't suffer as all you do is max wis as well!

I do believe your missing combat reflexes from your list there :D

I'd also point out the luck domain is probably the best one in the game. Clerics have quite good saves, so using the reroll on your saving throws makes it highly likely the 2nd attempt will succeed. The touch of good luck power is also quite useable combined with a glaive and combat reflexes.

If you'd like to use immediate actions to screw over the enemy, there is always divine interference (I'd like you to reroll that critical hit now pls k thx). In a lower level game, love domain would be good, but not so useful at higher levels when you can have other options.

[Sir Thugsalot]

Need feat ideas for a reach cleric with with dumped INT and CHA (so no channeling feats):

25pt human
STR+19 (bump 4th)
DEX:16
CON:14
INT:07
WIS:14
CHA:07

1. fight1 ...Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative
2. cleric1
3. cleric2 Power Attack
...
5. cleric 4 FEAT?
...
7. cleric 6 FEAT?
...
9. cleric 8 Vital Strike
...
11. cleric 10 Quicken Spell

(I'll be fighting with a Vital Strike'd 6d6 weapon while Enlarged or Righteous Might'ed. With a move of 50', I'll be in dash-and-smack mode most of the time.)

I'll probably take Pushing Assault as one of the open feat spots (seems like a very good match for a reach cleric's battle tactics, especially one with a polearm).

I could make the concept a Crusader archetype, but the freebie feats that provides can only go toward deity-favored weapons (which wouldn't be my primary in this particular case).

[Addem Up]

Sir Thugsalot wrote:

Need feat ideas for a reach cleric with with dumped INT and CHA (so no channeling feats):

25pt human
STR+19 (bump 4th)
DEX:16
CON:14
INT:07
WIS:14
CHA:07

1. fight1 ...Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative
2. cleric1
3. cleric2 Power Attack
...
5. cleric 4 FEAT?
...
7. cleric 6 FEAT?
...
9. cleric 8 Vital Strike
...
11. cleric 10 Quicken Spell

You're still a cleric, after all, so you might want to grab Scribe Scroll. Your party buddies will love you when you have a couple of scrolls of Lesser Restoration after ability damage hits. As for your other feats, you should fit Lunge in there somewhere. That lets you get attacks in while still allowing for AoOs on the enemy's turn.

[Broken Zenith]

Brewer's Guide to Reach Clerics

Clerics are tied for Monks for most guides with 7 a piece - you've checked them out, right? Comprehensive Guide to the Guides

Edit: Wow, did not realize what a Necro this was.

[XMorsX]

Sir Thugsalot wrote:

Need feat ideas for a reach cleric with with dumped INT and CHA (so no channeling feats):

25pt human
STR+19 (bump 4th)
DEX:16
CON:14
INT:07
WIS:14
CHA:07

1. fight1 ...Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative
2. cleric1
3. cleric2 Power Attack
...
5. cleric 4 FEAT?
...
7. cleric 6 FEAT?
...
9. cleric 8 Vital Strike
...
11. cleric 10 Quicken Spell

(I'll be fighting with a Vital Strike'd 6d6 weapon while Enlarged or Righteous Might'ed. With a move of 50', I'll be in dash-and-smack mode most of the time.)

I'll probably take Pushing Assault as one of the open feat spots (seems like a very good match for a reach cleric's battle tactics, especially one with a polearm).

I could make the concept a Crusader archetype, but the freebie feats that provides can only go toward deity-favored weapons (which wouldn't be my primary in this particular case).

My choices are Sacred Summons at the 5th lvl and Toughness at the 7th lvl. For a more martial approach you could take Lunge at the 5th lvl and Furious Finish at the 7th lvl.

For a non-traditional approach you could take Weapon Focus (Longspear) and Spear Dancer.

[DaedalusV]

Sir Thugsalot wrote:

Need feat ideas for a reach cleric with with dumped INT and CHA (so no channeling feats):

25pt human
STR+19 (bump 4th)
DEX:16
CON:14
INT:07
WIS:14
CHA:07

1. fight1 ...Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative
2. cleric1
3. cleric2 Power Attack
...
5. cleric 4 FEAT?
...
7. cleric 6 FEAT?
...
9. cleric 8 Vital Strike
...
11. cleric 10 Quicken Spell

(I'll be fighting with a Vital Strike'd 6d6 weapon while Enlarged or Righteous Might'ed. With a move of 50', I'll be in dash-and-smack mode most of the time.)

I'll probably take Pushing Assault as one of the open feat spots (seems like a very good match for a reach cleric's battle tactics, especially one with a polearm).

I could make the concept a Crusader archetype, but the freebie feats that provides can only go toward deity-favored weapons (which wouldn't be my primary in this particular case).

Your first level (unless typo) seems to be a fighter level. Since you're human you get 3 feats at first level, so you get to take power attack at first level too.

Your 3rd level and 5th level feats could very well be spell focus (conjuration) and augment summoning (if you want your summoning mojo on)

7th level feat I dunno. If your GM allows it, you could wait a level until you pick the feat and go for lunge (lvl 7 cleric BaB +5 and a +1 from your fighter level qualifies you for it)

[XMorsX]

Actually, if Power attack is obtained at 1st lvl, having SF: Conj, Augment Summoning and Sacred Summons by 7th lvl is a really strong choice. At highter lvls Superior Summoning can also be obtained.

EDIT: Lunge cannot be obtained at 5th lvl, Toughness should take its place.

[SmiloDan]

I have a 3.5 human reach cleric 1. 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest.
16 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 15 Wis, 13 Cha

1. Combat Reflexes
1. Divine Vigor (spend turn and +10 ft. of speed & +2 hps/HD)
3. Fiery Burst (reserve feat, 10 fireball 1d6/fire spell level)
6. Strength Devotion (slam attack, spend turn to ignore hardness)
9. Quicken Spell (good for divine favor)
12. Luck Devotion (1/day do at least average damage)
15. Power Attack? Extra Turning (+4 in 3.5)?
18. Touch of Healing (reserve feat, heal 3 hp/sp lvl up to 1/2 max)?

[Sir Thugsalot]

DaedalusV wrote:

Your first level (unless typo) seems to be a fighter level. Since you're human you get 3 feats at first level, so you get to take power attack at first level too.

Forgot.... I took Additional Traits as well at 1st for my human bonus feat (I have the traits Heirloom Weapon, Magical Knack, Glory of Old and Defender of the Society).

Quote:

Your 3rd level and 5th level feats could very well be spell focus (conjuration) and augment summoning (if you want your summoning mojo on)

The party I'm in presently contains a synthacist and a magus; in additional to me, we're over-done on melee. (But thanks for the suggestions.)

Note to the others: I'm limited to Paizo/Pathfinder materials.

Scribe Scroll is probably a good idea...in fact, I think I'll take it at 3rd (I'm pretty much pancaking anything I hit at low-level, and would rather keep attack bonus than gamble for an unnecessary +3 damage).

So....

1. Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Additional Traits
3. Scribe Scroll
5. Power Attack (timed perfectly for BAB4)
7. Pushing Assault
9. Vital Strike
11. Quicken Spell

Starting equipment: cold-iron dwarven longhammer, locking gauntlet, scroll of Masterwork Transformation (which I cannot cast)

[Black Lotus]

why fighter first level?

[TarkXT]

Broken Zenith wrote:

Brewer's Guide to Reach Clerics

Clerics are tied for Monks for most guides with 7 a piece - you've checked them out, right? Comprehensive Guide to the Guides

Edit: Wow, did not realize what a Necro this was.

[drunk]One day we will put the better guides together to form the King Tark's version of the Holy Cleric Bible. We'll also include a book of nothing but viking poems for the heck of it.[/drunk]

[Magda Luckbender]

Sounds like you have a solid plan. You've chosen the all-martial approach to the Reach Cleric. I think you'll miss the extra +3 damage from Power Attack at low levels, but the trade off for scrolls is worth it.

Pity you are determined to take that level in Fighter. Otherwise you could take Divine Interference at 11th level, for the win. The level in Fighter will make you stronger up through level 6 or so, but will be a hindrance at the higher levels.

I've played three reach clerics through many levels. At the higher levels I regretted not taking Sacred Summons & the other three Summoning feats. At the lower levels the martial abilities are most useful.

[Sir Thugsalot]

Black Lotus wrote:

why fighter first level?

I wanted to front-load as much crap as possible in low, as I'm uncertain how long the campaign will last. (Nothing sucks worse than playing a gimp forever, then having your game break up the week your guy finally levels into the cream.)

With the Defender of the Society trait and heavy armor proficiency, I'll eventually be AC+2 versus any cleric in the best medium armor.

BTW, my domains are Travel and Luck.

Magda Luckbender wrote:

Sounds like you have a solid plan. You've chosen the all-martial approach to the Reach Cleric. I think you'll miss the extra +3 damage from Power Attack at low levels, but the trade off for scrolls is worth it.

I'm doing 2d6+6 at 1st without it, so no I won't. ;-)

But 5th should come quick enough.

Quote:

Pity you are determined to take that level in Fighter. Otherwise you could take Divine Interference at 11th level, for the win. The level in Fighter will make you stronger up through level 6 or so, but will be a hindrance at the higher levels.

I'll be a cleric 10 (actually CL11 via Magical Knack) at 11th, so there's no reason I couldn't have that feat. (I'm only taking one fighter level.)

Quote:

I've played three reach clerics through many levels. At the higher levels I regretted not taking Sacred Summons & the other three Summoning feats. At the lower levels the martial abilities are most useful.

Summon Good Monster is also a possibility.

But the synth in the party will be doing a lot of summoning; so I'm happy enough to leave that headache to him anyway. With him and the magus, I suspect the party's melee weakness will be cracking tough DR in toe-to-toe slugfests, so I built a two-handed clobberer. With me joining late ("Could you make a healer?") and me liking polearm combat anyway, it all fell together nicely, I think.

[TarkXT]

Sir Thugsalot wrote:

But the synth in the party will be doing a lot of summoning; so I'm happy enough to leave that headache to him anyway. With him and the magus, I suspect the party's melee weakness will be cracking tough DR in toe-to-toe slugfests, so I built a two-handed clobberer. With me joining late ("Could you make a healer?") and me liking polearm combat anyway, it all fell together nicely, I think.

DR really isn't too much of an issue for either of those classes maguses being primarily magic type dealers and synthesists just kind of being primarily ridiculous anyway. In any case I do need to note that unless the synthesist plans on dropping his bodysuit often he won't be doing any summoning. Something to take into consideration.

The fighter level in my mind is okay though I wonder if it might not hurt to wait until 2nd for it anyway. There's no real difference between the two classes and that early healing/spellcasting is pretty potent at that level. In terms of heavy armor you won't be able to afford full plate yet anyway. Just some food for thought. The group at least might appreciate not needing to wait for your spellcasting.

[Sir Thugsalot]

Quote:

DR really isn't too much of an issue for either of those classes maguses being primarily magic type dealers and synthesists just kind of being primarily ridiculous anyway.

I also want to be the person who does a crapton of damage when limited to a move+standard. I'll be doing way more than either one of them in those situations by mid-level.

Quote:

The fighter level in my mind is okay though I wonder if it might not hurt to wait until 2nd for it anyway.

Defender of the Society is only available to fighters. (I also get an extra hitpoint this way.)

We're already second level anyway, so that hurdle is behind me.

[TarkXT]

Eh, depends on either build but you know that better than I.

In either case it looks like you're fine then. You've got all the necessary feats lined up, you have no incentive to try a different style (bad touching for example). The only other possible suggestion I'd make is consider Lunge over Vital Strike to potentially keep your reach advantage on large and huge things but that's a matter of preference. Beyond that it looks good.

[Sir Thugsalot]

STR+19 INT:07
DEX:16 WIS:14 (25pt-buy)
CON:14 CHA:07

....Katrina is all about kick-ass. Bed-side manner leaves a lot to be desired, however