Fleg
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So I have an idea for a character that runs around the battlefield throwing knives at people. I was thinking about using the knifemaster and scout rogue archetypes so that I can get d8 sneak attack damage with a thrown weapon (scout level 4 lets you charge and get sneak attack, scout level 8 lets you move 10ft and get sneak attack). The problem though is that for the first few levels the only way to get that sneak attack would be by regular means: going before the enemy and flanking.
So help me build this character! Please? :D
I'm thinking a fighter/rogue would be best. Probably human race, and using throwing stars So far the feat's I'm thinking is looking like this:
1 fighter1 point blank shot, precise shot, far shot
2 rogue1
3 rogue2 deadly aim
4 rogue3
5 rogue4 charging hurler
6 rogue5
7 rogue6 improved initiative
8 rogue7
9 rogue8 weapon focus?
10 rogue9
Is there any feats I'm missing that would make this better? Anything I should move around, or perhaps something better at level 9?
Character level 5 you can charge-throw your starknife without ever actually having to get into melee range. So if everything's close enough you can just keep charging different targets, or charge the rest of the distance for a regular attack.
By character level 9 you just need to move at least 10ft to get the sneak attack, and you can throw the starknife at a farther range. With deadly aim you could get alittle bit more damage on your attack.
So, thoughts?
And most importantly: improvements?
metid
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A great feat tree someone suggested to me was the snap shot feat tree (you can move, ranged attack, then move again), which allows for this build to work very effectively, and you can get it by 7th, right before you hit your stride. Up until then, I'd suggest focusing on general rogue stuff. Getting into position, being the first to act, all that stuff. Since you're focusing on sneak attack, deadly sneak is a good talent to get, and getting a caster to haste you is going to be extremely helpful. Honestly, you don't need to specialize too much to do this, as you'll just focus on regular sneak attacks when they're flat footed, you'll just be a bit squishier in melee if you don't invest in feats like toughness or dodge. Make sure to get acrobatics so you can bug out when you have to, if you spend any time in melee.
| mbauers |
I don't know how many levels of fighter you're planning on taking, but have you considered skirmisher ranger instead? At level 5 you take surprise shift. You can swift action move 5ft, then take your 5ft step. Now you've moved 10 ft so you get your sneak attack damage from scout, but you can make a full attack instead of only one attack
| HNNNNNNG |
haven't looked at skirmisher ranger. Thanks for bringing it up.
Could replace fighter 1, rearrange the feats abit, and then pick it back up at level 10 to move onto being able to move and make full attacks.
That'll bring it all up to 13 character levels.
Pretty reasonable, I don't expect to play that far into the teens (this character would be for either society or a home game, and the home game i go to hardly ever makes it to even 10)
| HNNNNNNG |
the scout knife master rogue with mobile fighter would make a nice gestalt character. (all the extra feats, and by level 11 could easily two-weapon fight rapid shot the knives after a little bit of movement. Could probably have gotten the other two-weapon fighting feats to get even more attacks)
would have to keep that in mind if I ever play a gestalt character, since I don't think I'll ever really be in a game that goes to level 20 for a scout knife master rogue 9/ mobile fighter 11
| Cult of Vorg |
A mount would let you get your full attack with that 10' minimum move, at any point during the move. You'd probably need leadership for a cohort mount to keep it alive though.
WeaponMaster Fighter 3 gives weapon training, that and duelist gloves would give some excellent hit and damage.
Barbarian Hurler gets an extra 10' range, and you could take hurling charge. Combine that with charging hurler and you've got two thrown attacks on each charge. Even without specializing in the charging throwing, a dip in hurler for that range seems too good to pass up.
I hear there's a belt in UE that allows you to use strength to thrown attacks. If your GM allows crafting, adding that to your physical enhancement belt, that's one mighty tosser...
| Chris P. Bacon |
I once built an awesome fighter brawler / rogue knife master build and actually got 3 sessions into a game before I bothered to check whether daggers were even in the close weapon group.
They are not, for some reason. So there goes that idea. If your GM takes mercy on you, however, it ain't half bad.
| Weren Wu Jen |
Quick Draw is an absolute must!
As someone mentioned, you can go with Two-Weapon Fighting as well (Rapid Shot and TWF DO stack).
And, because you know someone's going to try to keep you in melee:
You are agile enough to avoid melee attacks while throwing weapons or bombs.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Weapon Focus with selected thrown weapon.
Benefit: Choose a type of thrown weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity for making ranged attacks using the selected weapon. If you are an alchemist, and you select this feat and choose alchemist bombs, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity for the process of drawing components of, creating, and throwing a bomb.
Normal: Making a ranged attack provokes attacks of opportunity.
(From Ultimate Combat)
Of course, it means you'd also need to take Dodge and Weapon Focus...
| Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
I'd lose far shot for TWF, so that you're more viable in melee right away.
Your goal is to make lots of attacks, and get as much damage there as you can.
For PFS, I'd go with two levels of ranger instead. One less feat, but favored enemy human will add a lot of damage, plus tracking and triple the skill points. You'll be more useful to the party that way, and cause wands of CLW. You also open up a few more class skills.
There's a good trait for damage to daggers, but I don't recall the name.
Deadly aim is a great choice. I'm unconvinced on charging hurler, I think you'll need clustered shots instead. DR will absolutely wreck you.
And silver and cold iron daggers, as soon as possible.
Also, as a thrower, you'll be good with holy water and alchemist's fire. Stock up.
| Weren Wu Jen |
Ooh! rkraus2 is right, there is a character trait:
Regional Trait:
River Rat (marsh or river): You learned to swim right after you learned to walk. As a youth, a gang of river pirates put you to work swimming in nighttime rivers and canals with a dagger in your teeth so you could sever the anchor ropes of merchant vessels. You gain a +1 trait bonus on damage dealt with a dagger and a +1 trait bonus on Swim checks. Swim is always a class skill for you.
(From the APG)
| HNNNNNNG |
So like...
the 8 levels of the scout knife master rogue
5 of the skirmisher ranger for that swift action 5ft, 5ft step combo
then whatever else, making sure for two-weapon fighting, clustered shots, quick draw, close-quarters thrower
then at higher levels combat would be more moving around in 10ft increments making full attacks with thrown starknives (or daggers, while picking up the trait for extra damage).
critical items needed would be a blink back belt and magic daggers of different materials for sure.
Or doing all the above, but being mounted and just moving any distance to get the sneak attack damage.
So what would the build(s) look like then? Order of class levels and feats to take.
| StreamOfTheSky |
Yes, it's a shame daggers are not "close weapons" but punching daggers are. Brawler is so nice...
I would build it as a Thug Rogue X / Weapon Master Fighter 3, with the 3 Fighter levels coming in by 7th character level (so Fighter 3 / Rogue 4), both to help with feat needs and to snag Shatter Defenses feat as early as a rogue build possibly can.
Get the Blade of Mercy trait. The Enforcer feat. Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, and Shatter Defenses. You can now do nonlethal with daggers and each nonlethal hit triggers a demoralize check, which Thug synergizes with, and when a foe is shaken, they are flatfooted to you.
This is the direction I'd suggest going, along with the TWF tree and Rapid/Precise Shot.
Note if you don't care about Weapon Training (it's mainly nice for gloves of dueling), you could dip Fighter 1 level (pick any archetype w/ nice level 1 perks) and Cavalier 2 levels. Cav 2 with Order of the Cockatrice will give you a slightly less sucky Dazzling Display, though I still don't think it's ever worth using.
For gear.... you want Sniper Goggles ASAP.
Basically, getting ranged sneak attack is HARD in PF, so you need to find some schtick to generate it reliably.
| StreamOfTheSky |
Also, instead of using rogue and sneak attacking type build, you could see if your DM would allow my Master Thrower Fighter archetype, based off of the 3E prestige class.