vonFiedler
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So for character reasons I have a Paladin who is dipping into 1 level of Oracle. It's PFS, so we don't worry about not hitting any capstones.
If it makes a difference, the Curse I chose is Legalistic for its awesome +4 bonus to pretty much any roll I wish (this can be especially helpful with Faction missions).
I have narrowed it down to 5 choices. Feel free to suggest some I've overlooked, but keep in mind my Deity has to be within one step of LG.
Sacred Council; +2 to any d20 roll ~3 times a day. The good thing is that I can basically stack this with Legalistic to give myself a big early niche. But that is also why it is bad, just more of the same and definitely the least cool option.
Focused Trance; after a 1d6 trance, I get +20 to any int skill. Basically, Faction missions become almost a non issue. I can see this kinda fitting my character and it can help my allies. On the other hand, I already have Legalistic and this only helps one type of faction mission. Plus, it doesn't have a huge cool factor like some of the other Revelations.
War Sight; Roll initiative twice and take the higher result EVERY time. There's definitely a wow factor here, and the fact that it works every time means there will never be a scenario where it isn't very useful. However, it's not like I'm building Dex on a Paladin or anything.
Surprising Charge; Once per day, move up to my speed as an IMMEDIATE action. The uses here are endless. This is so cool, so amazingly cool. I'd take it in a heartbeat, but the fact that it is 1/day is a huge downer. EDIT: OH and it's a makeshift POUNCE!
Misfortune; When a creature rolls, make it reroll. This can affect a creature once, and as far as I can tell can be used infinitely. Which again is pretty insane. This a myriad of uses, that cool factor, and the ability to just keep on cooling people. My biggest concern though is that to date I've never played with a GM that announced his rolls. I'd basically have to cut him off and say "if its higher than a 15 naturally, reroll it". That or we bog down the game and he tells me the rolls.
And there you have it. Obviously Weapon Focus is good, but I'm dipping here. If I just fix what I lose with the dip, what am I really gaining?
Elamdri
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War Sight and Misfortune are the best.
While a GM isn't supposed to tell you the result of the roll, what you can do is force the GM to do things like Re-roll crits.
Also, keep in mind that while the ability is called "Misfortune," because it doesn't say that the creature must take the lower of the two rolls, it can be used to give your allies free rerolls.
For example, if Billy catastrophically rolls a 1 on an important roll, you can force him to reroll and he has to take the second roll, which has a 95% chance of being better than his last roll.
Misfortune however requires you to be a Dual Cursed Oracle.
| Tholomyes |
I thought that (unless it's different in PFS), due to the nature of an Oracle's powers, being not tied to devotion to a single deity, unlike Paladins and Clerics, Oracles' revelations don't need to be tied down to a chosen deity, thus subverting the necessity to be within a step of the deity's alignment.
If I am wrong about that, War Sight seems fairly useful, since as a Paladin, going first seems useful, and something that would otherwise be difficult to do. Misfortune seems like a better choice (and as it's worded, fairly broken), but it's hard to tell, since it depends on the GM, and while my experience is better in terms of GMs announcing rolls, it's still been about 50-50 for me.
| Tholomyes |
@vonFinder: yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that deity is where he gets his powers from. My friend has a good story of a campaign, where he played an Oracle of Flame, who thought his powers came from Sarenrae, but the GM decided to drop little hints, which eventually mounted in an arc, where the party realized that they were actually being pawns for Asmodeus, and that's where his powers originated.
Granted, he was pure Oracle, no MC, but still.
| Umbriere Moonwhisper |
the whole reason to go dual cursed is misfortune. the next best dipping revelations for a paladin are.
war sight. go first more
sidestep secret (offered by lore) charisma to AC and reflex saves, negates the need for heavy dexterity focus, assuming primary melee, and disregarding archery, which while not optimal, is a playstyle kind of thing.
misfortune. negate a crit as an immediate action
dance of steel (metal mystery), 10 foot speed bonus that even lame oracles can benefit from.
Elamdri
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sidestep secret (offered by lore) charisma to AC and reflex saves, negates the need for heavy dexterity focus, assuming primary melee, and disregarding archery, which while not optimal, is a playstyle kind of thing.
Holy CRAP that's a NASTY combo.
Would the charisma bonus to Reflex saves stack with the Charisma bonus to all saves that the Paladin gets?
| Some Random Dood |
Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:sidestep secret (offered by lore) charisma to AC and reflex saves, negates the need for heavy dexterity focus, assuming primary melee, and disregarding archery, which while not optimal, is a playstyle kind of thing.Holy CRAP that's a NASTY combo.
Would the charisma bonus to Reflex saves stack with the Charisma bonus to all saves that the Paladin gets?
Yes, I know a guy down at my local PFS here who has done exactly this, 1 lv oracle, the rest in paladin, and his saves are through the roof.
Elamdri
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Elamdri wrote:Yes, I know a guy down at my local PFS here who has done exactly this, 1 lv oracle, the rest in paladin, and his saves are through the roof.Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:sidestep secret (offered by lore) charisma to AC and reflex saves, negates the need for heavy dexterity focus, assuming primary melee, and disregarding archery, which while not optimal, is a playstyle kind of thing.Holy CRAP that's a NASTY combo.
Would the charisma bonus to Reflex saves stack with the Charisma bonus to all saves that the Paladin gets?
No freaking kidding. All you need is a ring of evasion and you can do the MC Hammer dance in a Delayed Fireball singing "Can't Touch This"
| Tholomyes |
Some Random Dood wrote:No freaking kidding. All you need is a ring of evasion and you can do the MC Hammer dance in a Delayed Fireball singing "Can't Touch This"Elamdri wrote:Yes, I know a guy down at my local PFS here who has done exactly this, 1 lv oracle, the rest in paladin, and his saves are through the roof.Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:sidestep secret (offered by lore) charisma to AC and reflex saves, negates the need for heavy dexterity focus, assuming primary melee, and disregarding archery, which while not optimal, is a playstyle kind of thing.Holy CRAP that's a NASTY combo.
Would the charisma bonus to Reflex saves stack with the Charisma bonus to all saves that the Paladin gets?
I spent a good 30 seconds trying to figure out "How does one Multiclass in 'Hammer'?"
Elamdri
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Elamdri wrote:I spent a good 30 seconds trying to figure out "How does one Multiclass in 'Hammer'?"Some Random Dood wrote:No freaking kidding. All you need is a ring of evasion and you can do the MC Hammer dance in a Delayed Fireball singing "Can't Touch This"Elamdri wrote:Yes, I know a guy down at my local PFS here who has done exactly this, 1 lv oracle, the rest in paladin, and his saves are through the roof.Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:sidestep secret (offered by lore) charisma to AC and reflex saves, negates the need for heavy dexterity focus, assuming primary melee, and disregarding archery, which while not optimal, is a playstyle kind of thing.Holy CRAP that's a NASTY combo.
Would the charisma bonus to Reflex saves stack with the Charisma bonus to all saves that the Paladin gets?
I don't know...but we should totally make it a thing.
| Rycaut |
Nature mystery has a similar revelation to Sidestep secret that gives you CHA to initiative and CMD (but not reflex saves) which is a pretty nice option to consider as well if Nature fits your character better than the Lore Mystery.
And don't forget that whatever Mystery you select if you have dipped Oracle you can always take Extra Revelation in the future OR you can purchase one of the multiple magic items (of different slots) that grant you an Oracle revelation (but generally require you to be an Oracle of that mystery).
Also don't forget that your curse will advance at 1/2 your non-Oracle levels so you will get the benefits of being a 5th level Oracle per your curse when you are a level 8 Paladin, level 1 oracle. So delayed but still can be very nice depending on your curse - definitely makes dipping Oracle even more interesting for many build concepts.
I'm toying with a very complex Paladin build for PFS - Paladin / Oracle (Nature probably) / Sorcerer / Dragon Disciple (not sure I'll include the Oracle level but it would mean the character could use pretty much every wand among other nice features) . Definitely an unusual character but could be pretty fun to play - if weaker in the mid levels potentially due to low level spell access and reduced BAB.
| Umbriere Moonwhisper |
Does sidestep stack with divine grace?
There no official ruling - so ask your Gm first.
Creative Director James Jacobs - said no, but again nothing offeciel - just how he would run things if he was the GM.
sidestep replaces your dexterity bonus with your charisma bonus
divine grace adds an untyped bonus equal to your charisma bonus.
not the same bonus type, so they both stack. it is one of those odd yet unfair ways to legally double dip charisma. but vampire antipaladins can do the same thing with fortitude.
| Daelen |
I apologize if this is bad form and I'm not trying to threadjack, but this has given me what I think is an excellent idea. Granted, it is 5:36 AM and I'm falling asleep at my computer, but still I'd like to add this to the discussion. 2 levels of Paladin for, among other things, Divine Grace. 1 level of Lore Mystery Oracle for Sidestep Secret, and maybe the Lame curse because... 3 levels of Monk for evasion, Wis to AC, Flurry, and evasion, not to mention Still Mind to qualify for Champion of Irori.