Goblin Squad Member
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What does "Threaded" mean?Each character has a certain number of "threads of fate" they can use to tie their equipment to them, thanks to the rather unusual relationship the characters have with the goddess Pharasma—the same relationship that causes them to keep coming back from the dead. These threads cause the items to which they are tied to remain with the character when the character resurrects, meaning threaded items cannot be looted. Higher-level items consume more threads to tie them. Characters earn more threads as they advance in level, but they gain threads more slowly than they gain level-appropriate gear. This means a starting character will be able to thread all of his equipment to him, while a high-level character will probably have to pick and choose what he uses his threads on if he is using all high-end gear. If a low-level character gets his hands on a high-level weapon, he will probably have to expend most of his threads to keep it, meaning the rest of his gear will be lootable.
If a character dies and manages to make it back to his husk before it is looted, he has looting rights and can regain all his equipment. So if his allies can keep his killers away from his husk, they can make sure he gets his gear back.
In addition to the time it takes to loot a husk, each player has an encumbrance limit that determines how much gear he can carry. This starts out at a set number that can be increased by race (i.e. dwarves have a high encumbrance limit), by equipment (bags of holding, backpacks, etc), or by spells or feats. Each item in the game is rated in encumbrance, and you can only carry items that have a combined total encumbrance equal to or below your encumbrance limit. So even if someone kills you, they may not be able to make off with everything they could loot from you. This also allows certain crafting or gathering equipment loadouts, like trading cloaks for backpacks and wondrous item slots for bags of holding.
If you are killed in a non-consensual way, such as being ambushed while minding your own business, you may level a death curse on the killer by praying to Calistria. Doing so costs you reputation, but the cost is reduced if your killer has a low reputation (and if he is a gank-happy killer, he probably will have a very low reputation). Once invoked, the death curse causes your killer's threads to become weakened for a time. If your killer is in turn slain by you or one of your specified agents before the death curse ends, more of his gear may be looted. Your killer cannot have the curse removed by having an ally kill him and refuse to loot him; it only goes away if he is slain by you or someone you specify, such as a member of your group or settlement.
My two questions are as follows:
Are only equipped items lootable? if all items are potentially lootable will there be affordable safe "storage" options?
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Goblin Squad Member
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However the dead player will hold onto whatever he has in his hands, his armor, his money, plus whatever in his inventory he 'threaded' against loss. Any unthreaded rings, necklaces, fluff, items and resources he had in inventory will be available to be looted. The looter gets to pick only so much though: everything not looted that was left behind by the player at release disappears.
I think I got that right.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It says up in the quote that unthreaded gear is lootable. Wouldn't that include weapons and armor, if the player didn't have sufficient threads to hold everything? If equipped items and gold aren't lootable, being a bandit doesn't seem very equitable; and the sting of death doesn't seem so bad.
I wouldn't need to thread anything I was wearing or holding and I might as well carry all my gold with me at all times. If I'm a low-level player that can only effectively fight with a dagger, but have a +2 greatsword in my pack, as long as I equip that sword prior to death, I don't have to waste threads on it? I guess that's assuming that I can equip it at great penalty - which wouldn't matter if I was about to die...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Okay so I have a two handed greatsword, a longbow, a longsword +1, and a shield. I've used up my threads on my bag of holding and my rings. If I was using the longsword and shield that would leave my longbow, greatsword, cloak, necklace, and probably my bracers (unless those are considered armor) for you to loot plus any spell components or crafting resources I had collected for you to pick from.
Whatever I was holding in my hands, my armor, and my money go with me along with anything I have threaded.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The threading is one of the things I really like about Pathfinder Online. After all, once you have slain the dragon (and are half dead) getting killed by an opportunistic bandit and losing everything could players rage quit the game forever.
However I think, that bandits might not have such a great profit margin when it comes to selling loot. After all, maybe items are clearly identifiable as stolen (maybe something like a forge mark on the weapons) so no reputable merchant would touch the stuff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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so, if what I'm reading here is correct...
I can't lose anything I have in my hands (weapons), my armor or my money. This is without threading anything.
So, lets turn this scenario around on the good guys, shall we?
I'm leading my band of ne'er do wells (The Bloody Hand). We've currently set up a nice hideout along a well traveled route. Knowing full well, that as long as we have nothing lose in our inventories, there is no possible way for us to lose equipment, I've orderd my men to only bring weapons and armor, leave all the other stuff at home.
Now we have been rendered immune to gear loss, while other wandering travelers (who have not taken the same precautions as I) are the ONLY ones who could possibly lose items during our attack.
This renders the death curse useless as I have no "threaded" items. Now the worst I can expect is a bounty, and I'm looking forward to seeing how large of a bounty I can acumulate.
For all of you who are against non-consensual PVP, you should hope that this is not how things turn out. Your best hope is that both weapons and armor are included in things that can drop. That way they need to be threaded. The Death Curse would then have a real effect and may deter people like me from randomly attacking you. But probably not. I grew up with EVE... don't fly anything you can't afford to lose. I play by the rule, don't fly anything you wouldn't self destruct on a bet.
EDIT: On 2nd thought, I'd probably leave a bottle of some sort of alcohol in my inventory, maybe the one I'll have named after my character. A job well done gift from me to you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Alku, exactly - a nice extension of my concern. It's not that I "want" to lose my weapons/armor/gold. But not having to protect them in some way doesn't seem to follow the explanation of threading provided in the OP and I really like the concept of threading.
I would expect to have to thread whatever I wanted protected in my inventory, regardless of whether I have it in my hand or on my head. Perhaps a percentage of my gold is lootable, and unable to be threaded. Bandits aren't going to continue being bandits just for the sake of being bandits.
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Goblin Squad Member
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so, if what I'm reading here is correct...
I can't lose anything I have in my hands (weapons), my armor or my money. This is without threading anything.
Yup. That is what I understood Ryan to say.
So, lets turn this scenario around on the good guys, shall we?I'm leading my band of ne'er do wells (The Bloody Hand). We've currently set up a nice hideout along a well traveled route. Knowing full well, that as long as we have nothing lose in our inventories, there is no possible way for us to lose equipment, I've orderd my men to only bring weapons and armor, leave all the other stuff at home.
Now we have been rendered immune to gear loss, while other wandering travelers (who have not taken the same precautions as I) are the ONLY ones who could possibly lose items during our attack.
Sounds right as rain to me.
This renders the death curse useless as I have no "threaded" items. Now the worst I can expect is a bounty, and I'm looking forward to seeing how large of a bounty I can acumulate.
True: It is sorta like a compliment isn't it?
For all of you who are against non-consensual PVP, you should hope that this is not how things turn out.
That is where we disagree (the bottle is a classy touch, tho). And its okay to disagree in my book. But the traders and travelers want to have a functioning economy, right? It is how they make their, and sometimes your, living. If the money isn't flowing around in the great circle of fiscal life then everyone will be really hurting, especially the developers.
It was explained to me not too long ago that the threat of the Bloody Hand and those like them is exactly what provides employment for young adventurers who aren't wholly occupied with crafting and resource gathering. If the Bloody Hand weren't doing their job the traders wouldn't hire our buddies the mercenary guards, they wouldn't then be able to buy crafted goods with that money, and the crafters wouldn't be able to sell anything to anyone, so they couldn't pay the resource gatherers for the sacks of rocks and bundles of twigs they had gathered.
Life would come to a complete standstill. Everyone would be scratching their heads wondering what was up.
Eventually they would bring banquets and gifts to the hideout of the Bloody Hand asking them to please get off their collective duff and get to work.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What it looks like it reads is that everything on your corpse is lootable except what is threaded, gear worn or carried. So if you have a nice sword and some pretty nifty armor you want to thread it but if that uses all your available threads then you will lose your bag of holding and your boots of speed.
@Daeron Binding your items would kind of defeat the point of the system, that of making dieing and killing meaningful. Either the 'bound' object would be something you thread or since only you would be able to use it the guy looking your husk would just leave it behind and thus destroyed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What it looks like it reads is that everything on your corpse is lootable except what is threaded, gear worn or carried. So if you have a nice sword and some pretty nifty armor you want to thread it but if that uses all your available threads then you will lose your bag of holding and your boots of speed.
Thats what I read it to mean as well. I'm personally glad for it. I know we're all getting sick of EVE references, but the physical rush I get from PVP in EVE stems from the fact that once I'm "committed" to fight (i.e. both me and my opponant have no way of running away), I know its down to me, or him. One of us is flying away with his ship, the other is not. It's that real sense of loss and danger that gets me hooked to PVP in that game.
People who have played EVE know what I'm talking about, others dont. Until you feel that sensation for yourself, you just arent going to understand. I hope this real sense of excitement happens when I'm in PvP in PFO. I want to know that when I jump out from the shadows, its going to be me, or him. One of us is going to end up dead on the ground, the other is going to get the spoils.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I want to know that when I jump out from the shadows, its going to be me, or him. One of us is going to end up dead on the ground, the other is going to get the spoils.
Amen brother, if GW can capture this feeling, with the world and lore of pathfinder around it, they will have me for life.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Absolutely agree wit Alku Leon.
You have to feel your blood flowing through your veines in a adrenalistic rush!
I'm really no friend of insurance/threaded things... Why?
It will all run down to the same high end items which will be threaded in the end.
If i'd be such a Bandit and see a Merchant, Mercenary or whoever walking around with a bright shining golden shield. I WANT IT! I want exactly THAT shield! Not his gold, armor or other belongings in his backpack. Just that shield! That guy of course threaded it since it is the item of most value. So i might end up being disappointed, or even griefing the victim since it is the shield i wanted... (this is just theoratical!! I'm not that kind of badass)
Do threads run out of charge or is it perma bound to you like ie. lvl 3 got 5 threads.. So, i use them to thread my sword, i die. I only have my sword when being ressed, which is still threaded? or do i have my sword unthreaded now and lost a amount of threads like i have only 3 left now?
I'm a little bit disappointed in that threading theory... It is your own risk running around in high value stuff, everybody knows that, so you have to deal with the consequences.
Full Loot is the only real deal...
This threaded theory reminds me of UO when they implemented insurance. You were able to insure your Armor, Weaps, Gear (that u had equipted) for gold. Sadly this totally destroyed the thrill of surviving an ambush since you wouldn't loose anything of HIGH (personal) value, aswell vice versa to ambush people for "worthless loot".
About that random killing innocents. Make Murderers suffer hard for their crimes! Once again i have to remind you of UO which in my opinion handled it very well with HEAVILY skill loss when ressurecting an evil murderer.
I'm so sorry that i didn't play EVE and mostly compare to my BEST gaming experience i used to enjoy in UO in the old days. Though i'm really looking forward we might come near to it with PFO when handled correctly =)
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Goblin Squad Member
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What it looks like it reads is that everything on your corpse is lootable except what is threaded, gear worn or carried. So if you have a nice sword and some pretty nifty armor you want to thread it but if that uses all your available threads then you will lose your bag of holding and your boots of speed.
@Daeron Binding your items would kind of defeat the point of the system, that of making dieing and killing meaningful. Either the 'bound' object would be something you thread or since only you would be able to use it the guy looking your husk would just leave it behind and thus destroyed.
Even though it doesnt follow logics and physics you could simply give people looting a chance to get a copy of gear on the corpse. So basicly if you have envied someones sword or gear piece you could get a copy from the corpse without neccesary take it from the player, its a game after all. In a tabletop game you wouldnt take something from the players unless it contributes in teaching them a lesson or a bigger purpose ending up in more fun.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...
If i'd be such a Bandit and see a Merchant, Mercenary or whoever walking around with a bright shining golden shield. I WANT IT! I want exactly THAT shield! Not his gold, armor or other belongings in his backpack. Just that shield!...
'You can't always get what you want.
'But if you try sometime, you might find'you get what you need.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Even though it doesnt follow logics and physics you could simply give people looting a chance to get a copy of gear on the corpse. So basicly if you have envied someones sword or gear piece you could get a copy from the corpse without neccesary take it from the player, its a game after all. In a tabletop game you wouldnt take something from the players unless it contributes in teaching them a lesson or a bigger purpose ending up in more fun.
I would not be in favor of this. Essentially you and a friend could 'dupe' a high powered item this way.
"Hey- I have the dragon slaying sword of uberness. Why don't you kill me so you can have one too?"
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, the dupe idea would be a disaster.
I think threading is a great idea. In fact, it is the best idea I have seen from the GW.
It makes it possible for people who aren't too excited by PvP to accept it, and those whose sense of worth comes by taking stuff from others can still get their jollies on.
I'd like to see items only be threadable once, however.
In other words, once you thread and item, if you sell or trade or lose that item it is not threadable by subsequent owners. This only happens if you thread it. The original 'threader' can still re-thread the item, but only one character can ever thread an item.
- It will give real meaning to the idea of a 'used' item.
- It will ensure there isn't a stream of twinked characters from higher-skilled characters passing down their cool stuff to lower characters.
- It will increase the opportunity for PvP rewards to include better stuff. (More un-threaded gear in the game over time.)
- It will increase the demand and value of newly crafted items versus 'used' items.
Of course, the PvP monkeys who take items won't be able to thread them if they've been previously threaded...but the like 'high risk, high reward' game play. So I'd expect no counter from that quarter.
The largest complaint will likely come from those who plan to pass the best gear down from character to character. But I think it's okay to demand that each character earn their own Threadable stuff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What it looks like it reads is that everything on your corpse is lootable except what is threaded, gear worn or carried. ...
That doesn't mirror my understanding. If memory serves, Ryan specifically said 'armor' rather than 'everything you are wearing'. He said 'whatever is in your hands' rather than 'weapons'. And we do not know how many threads a player gets to assign to items they want to definitely keep.
The threads don't sound like they are a property of what you thread to, but a character capacity. If I choose I can actively assign a thread to my bag of holding (likely). I doubt that thread would extend to everything in that bag of holding, only the bag itself.
Rings and jewelry aren't armor. Bracers might be considered armor or might not, I dunno. Same with cloaks: armor or not?
If I have a staff occupying both my hands any other weapon I haven't threaded would be available to loot. Unless I thread it, my ring of regeneration +1 would be available to looting. If cloaks are not armor, then my Cloak of Elvenkind would be vulnerable (unless I expended a thread for it).
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Goblin Squad Member
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What does "Threaded" mean?Each character has a certain number of "threads of fate" they can use to tie their equipment to them, thanks to the rather unusual relationship the characters have with the goddess Pharasma—the same relationship that causes them to keep coming back from the dead. These threads cause the items to which they are tied to remain with the character when the character resurrects, meaning threaded items cannot be looted. Higher-level items consume more threads to tie them. Characters earn more threads as they advance in level, but they gain threads more slowly than they gain level-appropriate gear. This means a starting character will be able to thread all of his equipment to him, while a high-level character will probably have to pick and choose what he uses his threads on if he is using all high-end gear. If a low-level character gets his hands on a high-level weapon, he will probably have to expend most of his threads to keep it, meaning the rest of his gear will be lootable.
Right there it looks like it will be everything that someone has on their person. While I don't fully agree with threading, I would like it be that when I die I lose everything. It would add a sense of excitement and a him or me mentality.
However, I would like it if during the battle some of my stuff broke upon my death and made it disappear. Possibly even making a durability system. Though unlike WoW where if your item has 0 durability it is just unusable until you get it repaired, I would like to see it just get destroyed and go bye-bye. It would also make it so that just by ganking or griefing you add a little more danger to yourself.