Hey all trying to figure if this will work. 5 lvls of bard (Arcane Duelist) and one lvl of fighter. With the arcane bond for somatics, and Eschew materials to avoid material components. If I understand it correctly if I pick the proper spells I could be loaded up with full plate, a heavy shield and longsword without spellcasting penalties? Human str 18 dex 14 con 12 int 10 wis 13 and cha 15 short two feats still but picked up power attack, eschew materials and lingering performance to start..probably toughness would be a good idea
yes at level 16 you will be able to use full plate. If you want to forgo the shield you can go Magus and get full plate at level 13. Guess you can look through the spell list and see which ones you like better. Magus will allow you to cast while still attacking. Bard will have better buffs for his party.
The shield is fine, but bards can only cast in light armor without spell failure chance, and arcane duelist doesn't change that until pretty high level. I think it's 10th for medium armor and 15th or 18th for heavy. You can get pretty tanky with a few spells though. Mirror image and either blur or displacement can make you pretty darn hard to hit, though those are rounds spent casting and not fighting.
Hmm guessing I might have misunderstood, was thinking that since you can use the arcane bonded weapon for somatics that it would bypass the spell failure. Ah well so I guess it wont work by lvl 6, maybe I will just have to go straight bard..any feats to recommend?
Going magus would certainly give your tank a "cannon", have you considered pal 2?
Then there is the dastana and cha-har-aina from the old oriental adventures book. Couple it with a chain shirt and you have there pieces of stackable armor that can all be maxed with +5 protection plus other enchantment to give you a total of +19 armor and 0% spell fail if you get mithril.
You would need medium armor prof which you get with pal 2 plus phenomenal save boost.
Sorry Byrd what is a pal2
Paladin of level 2.
Hmm pally might be a good idea. I agree Matt this is a challenge, been trying to see if it will work (insomnia due to newborn) My general idea is basically using spells for utility/buffing while in the front line taking some hits. Compel hostility to draw attention, allegro in the early lvls for a quick haste while keeping inspire courage up for the whole party followed by haste in midlevels
Look into those armor pieces, you will end up with as much (more) ac as a fighter with maxed ou full plate and tower shield. Difference is that you keep your free hand, full mobility, 0 spell failure, and even more armor customization options. I would suggest going dervish with this one as you will get the most out of your dex. Stat it out and put it through the paces, see if it fits your concept.
I've done this with a decent degree of success before, taking two levels of Sacred Shield (Paladin archetype) and then putting the rest into Arcane Duelist. The build focuses on drawing "aggro" mostly through roleplaying stuff (being the leader of the party, charging boldly towards enemies, using the antagonize feat and spells such as blistering invective to piss stuff off). Unfortunately, since you'll be wanting heavier armor later on, your AC can somewhat suffer at lower levels, but you can be wearing mithral breastplate (proficiency in medium armor from Paladin, counts as light for bard spell failure) as soon as you can afford it, switching to mithral full plate at Arcane Duelist 10. He may be less good than a full fighter at sheer damage soaking, but with killer saves due to Divine Grace and buffs like Allegro, Blink, and Mirror Image to cast on himself (while using full armor, a shield, and a weapon) he can be pretty hardy. He also, due to his great saves, ability to cast using he weapon hand, and bonus feats through AD, can be a respectable magekiller (antagonize also works great to prevent spellcasters from teleporting while your team closes in). You have very little chance of matching a strict martial character in damage output, but remember you still have full access to the best bard buffing stuff. On the first round you encounter the BBEG, you can Inspire Courage on yourself as a move action, cast Good Hope as a standard, and smite as a swift (halving damage to allies within 10 ft. and giving you Cha as a deflection bonus to AC), before charging in round two. It's just so very cool and leaderful of you.
Remember that because of your arcane bond you can cast with both shield and sword, and your weapon is half price. That's a huge advantage for someone who actually uses their sword, a great magic weapon can help offset your (a bit more than) 3/4 BAB. Is this the most effective tank overall? Maybe not, tons of fun though, and you can tank in many different ways, vs. a will save as well as a sword. For extra fun (and extra challenging backstory building) dip a level of Nature Oracle to grab your Cha bonus to AC and CMD instead of Dex, making Dex a complete dump stat for you, the reflex penalty being offset by serene grace and the bard's good save (does mess up combat reflexes though). Remember also that if you don't mind being a bit foolish and slow, with a heart of gold, you can dump both Int and Wis without negatively affecting much, making you very SAD on Cha, with whatever balance of Con and Str you want for defense/offense. At 13th level with this build (where his campaign ended, but he was getting even more awesome) he had saves of +16/+12/+18, an AC of 35, and 132 hp, with one-off full bard CL thanks to Magical Knack and an attack bonus of +17 before any buffs.
If you want a Bard with a good defense, you should either play a Chelish Diva or a Dawnflower Dervish. The latter uses dex for attack and damage and can thus focus on it to pump AC up, and is heavily compatible with the Crane Style/Wing feats (due to needing a handy left empty anyway). The former eventually gains proficiency and the ability to cast bard spells in medium and heavy armor.
Funny thing is I've been revisiting this idea. But I think I would go with the skald over the bard. Skald's vigor giving you fast healing 2 at level one is just too good
A tanking skald would definitely be preferable over a tanking bard. Fast healing (from feats), damage reduction, improved uncanny dodge, rage powers, martial weapons, and can cast in medium armor right out the gate. The song boosts your con and str as well, although giving a -1 penalty to AC. You could drop a feat on heavy armor prof and get mithral full plate to cast spells in that no problem.
But with both I'd look more at magical defenses rather than just pumping AC. Mirror Image, spammable for both classes, is awesome at reducing hits. Displacement is on their spell list as well. The skald can also use spell kenning to cast wizard and cleric spells if need be (righteous might? stoneskin?). And with the free scribe scroll feat could have some random spells prepared and ready to go.
Both can make use of UMD and get some nice buffs from low level wands.
I think the big issue is whether to use a shield or not. It is hard to do a lot of damage without two handing a weapon, and you want a hand free to be able to cast spells too. Both classes have easy access to the shield spell via a wand. Theres several options available to get the shield AC going, so it would come down to how one chooses to go about it (animated shield, buckler, shield spell, etc..)
Its definitely doable. You might not reach as high an AC as a fighter/tank or a monk, but you can get it way up there and back up the AC with spell defenses.
The biggest drawback will be the need for good ability scores all around, and to a lesser extent the lack of any bonus feats. A clever build could alleviate this somewhat.
But just to consider potential AC for say a lvl 12 skald with the beast totem rage power and heavy armor proficiency feat. 10 + 3 dex +13 armor (+4 mithral full plate) +3 ring of protection +4 natural (beast totem) -1 raging song +4 shield spell. thats 36 AC right there, with both hands free, and several ways to boost it much further. Lets say combat expertise and haste for an even 40. An adult red dragon CR 14 is attacking with a +25 top attack, and if it power attacks that goes down to +20. So a dragon two CRs higher than your level will rarely hit that AC, and that doesn't even factor in mirror image.
So yeah, you could put together a tanking bard/skald fairly easily with some careful planning.