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No sure if this is the best place for this but...
I was having a discussion about the new trip combat maneuver and trip weapon specail feature ruling. One of the people said they were sure more people agreed witht he ruling then didnt.
If your willing to discuss it I like to know how many agree with the ruling and how many houseruled them for their campaign.
I would link the rules but I dont know how to do that very well.
Yes, please change that. A dirty mind might think you were employing a creative euphemism for fornication.
Let me see if I can find what you're talking about though.
Here is the link:
You use the url tag. At the bottom of every post box, below the "The most important rule" line is a "How to format your text" spoiler block that shows how to link, bold, quote, etc.
And I have absolutely no problem with the rule change--in fact, I prefer it, because it means you actually have a realistic chance of tripping someone without having a specific weapon.
That...is not new. At all.
No wonder I was confused.
I'm still not sure what your question really is.
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Im of duel minds about you're pole. It's affect on me is their, but the rouge in me is wondering witch word you actually meant.
It was doubly confusing because the ruling is not in any way "new".
And there is no poll here. You haven't given a set of options like "Do you like it, not like it, hate it?", you just said "Who uses the rules?".
To answer the original question: I think it's kind of a silly ruling that makes the Trip quality mostly useless. But I'm not losing any sleep over it, so to speak.
If I'm GMing a home game, I'll probably rule that you need a trip weapon in order to trip with a manufactured weapon.
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Fiine I made a spelling error. Do you know how many times I've received email and printed memos with the word "are" when they meant "our" and they've spell checked it?
If you are not interested in taking the pole=poll fine I understand.
I have read the poll and i was interested in taking it. It was a small, joking jab.
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Ok, I'll state the question again and try not misspell or omit words.
The question is. How many people agree with updated trip rules and how many dont?
Is this stated clear enough?
I myself disagree on a couple things.
1: in the updated rules ALL weapons are equal for making trip combat maneuvers. Size, design features, etc make no difference. In the updated ruling ALL weapon give the same chance to trip.
2: the trip special wweapon feature gives nothing to assist in a trip combat maneuver, only if you fail really bad does the weapon feature come into play.
I really have no problem with the ability to use any weapon in a trip combat maneuver but all weapon should not give the same chance of success.
I like it. It was pretty silly that you couldn't trip someone with any weapon. Maybe trip weapons should give some kind of slight bonus, but I'm fine with them not.
Ugh! Thread hidden.
Like it but agree a trip weapon should get a bonus on trip manuvers I'm of the opinion it should be more like a +2
I'd rather they rename the property from "Trip" to something else to closer match what it actually does--i.e. act as a failsafe for rolling bad trip rolls and allowing you to use its bonuses on Drag/Reposition.
Perhaps something like the "Manipulation" quality? "Positioning" quality? "Hooked?"
I like it. It was pretty silly that you couldn't trip someone with any weapon. Maybe trip weapons should give some kind of slight bonus, but I'm fine with them not.
Exactly this. Agree with Rynjin 100 %.
Edit:Also the failsafe for rolling bad trip is really good if you are going to use trip a lot.
Like it but agree a trip weapon should get a bonus on trip manuvers I'm of the opinion it should be more like a +2
This is also my opinon. It's okay if every weapon can trip, but actual trip weapons should get a +2.
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I also think a +2 bonus to trip attempts with a trip weapon makes sense, like the one you get to disarm checks with a disarm weapon. It makes sense that you should be able to use weapons other than those specifically designed for tripping to trip people, but those specifically designed for tripping should be better at it, and the current rules don't really reflect that.
In short, I think the ruling is an improvement, but it went a bit too far in the other direction.
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I thought that Trip mentioned that if you failed your trip attempt, your opponent got a free attempt at tripping you, but I cannot find this in the description of the Trip CMB !!!
Such was the case in 3.5 ("If you lose, the defender may immediately react and make a Strength check opposed by your Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip you"), but it did not carry over to PFRPG and was replaced with "If your attack fails by 10 or more, you are knocked prone instead"
The property makes little sense in this case, as it would only come into play if your enemy gets an AoO and uses it to trip you.
Moreover most people consider that if you fail your attempt, your opponent can try to trip you (or use the AoO) only with his weapon.
In other words, a reach weapon gives you the same benefits as a trip weapon against an opponent with 5' reach, except that you do not even need to drop it. In fact it allows you to completely avoid the AoO, since you provoke but are out of your opponent's reach (and thus not threatened =no AoO for him).
It would be best for a trip weapon to add +2 to the trip attempt (same as a disarm weapon). Also it would help with avoiding being knocked prone (the original RAI/RAW of the property in 3.5).
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ah?
normally : if you fail your check by 10 or more you are knocked prone
with trip weapon: if you fail your check by 10 or more you knocked prono or can choose to drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.
I do not see the problem.
CRB states "Trip: You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped." It says nothing about being knocked prone.
RAW, this property then only comes into play if you are tripped during your trip attempt, NOT if you are knocked prone due to a failed attempt at tripping :-/
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ah?
normally : if you fail your check by 10 or more you are knocked prone
with trip weapon: if you fail your check by 10 or more you knocked prono or can choose to drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.
I do not see the problem.
CRB states "Trip: You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped." It says nothing about being knocked prone.
RAW, this property then only comes into play if you are tripped during your trip attempt, NOT if you are knocked prone due to a failed attempt at tripping :-/
To be completely honest even though I dislike the updated rules....
You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. Was offically removed.This comes from the UE:
Trip: When you use a trip weapon to make a trip attack, if you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.
This is the second sentence under trip from the CRB:
If your attack exceeds the target’s CMD, the target is knocked prone. If your attack fails by 10 or more, you are knocked prone instead. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has. Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped.
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Here's something about the updated rules I have pointed out a couple times and no one has given their opinion on.
In the updated rules:
for the trip combat maneuver you can use any weapon and get all relevent bonuses with that weapon.
So in the updated rules all weapon are equal, doesnt matter size,specail feature, weight, length, etc....all weapons are equal.
All weapons are equal....seem wrong to me.
Here's something about the updated rules I have pointed out a couple times and no one has given their opinion on.
In the updated rules:
for the trip combat maneuver you can use any weapon and get all relevent bonuses with that weapon.So in the updated rules all weapon are equal, doesnt matter size,specail feature, weight, length, etc....all weapons are equal.
All weapons are equal....seem wrong to me.
So houserule that trip weapons give a +2 to trip attempts. Done.
Here's something about the updated rules I have pointed out a couple times and no one has given their opinion on.
In the updated rules:
for the trip combat maneuver you can use any weapon and get all relevent bonuses with that weapon.So in the updated rules all weapon are equal, doesnt matter size,specail feature, weight, length, etc....all weapons are equal.
All weapons are equal....seem wrong to me.
Lots of people have given their opinion on it--they think it's a fine change and either they like that all weapons are equally good at tripping, they don't care, or they would houserule in a +1 or +2 to trip attempts.
Why are you pushing this weird trip weapon agenda so hard? Did some enemy trip you without a trip weapon recently, and you fell on your butt and got butt hurt?
So alot of people like that a dagger can trip someone just as easy as any other weapon that has a longer reach (not reach weapons just longer reach then 6-8 inches).
Yes.
Now, can you just come out with your agenda? Why are you so passionate about trip weapons?
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Here's something about the updated rules I have pointed out a couple times and no one has given their opinion on.
In the updated rules:
for the trip combat maneuver you can use any weapon and get all relevent bonuses with that weapon.So in the updated rules all weapon are equal, doesnt matter size,specail feature, weight, length, etc....all weapons are equal.
All weapons are equal....seem wrong to me.
Lots of people have given their opinion on it--they think it's a fine change and either they like that all weapons are equally good at tripping, they don't care, or they would houserule in a +1 or +2 to trip attempts.
Why are you pushing this weird trip weapon agenda so hard? Did some enemy trip you without a trip weapon recently, and you fell on your butt and got butt hurt?
Love the personal bash there, forum etiquette aside.
Getting back to question.
Alot of people hated the old rules.....alot of people hate the updated rules. You shouldnt have to houserule a rule you think is wrong. Just like those of you used the forums/blogs to get the rules changed to something you like, why should I sit back and leave it as is?
Yes the old rule was flawed, but should we change it to a updated rule that is just as flawed?
The updated rule is flawed in that it makes all weapons equal when it comes to the trip combat maneuver. All weapons are not equal.
Heres how I would have dont it.
You can make a trip combat maneuver with any weapon.
You get all bonuses except weapon specific bonuses.(enchantments, feats, classes weapon specific {such as weapon training from fighter}).
If you use a trip weapon you can add weapon specific bonuses as well.
Of course those who love the updated rules would hate this.
Oh a clarification... improved trip feat is not weapon specific.
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You asked and several people answered.So alot of people like that a dagger can trip someone just as easy as any other weapon that has a longer reach (not reach weapons just longer reach then 6-8 inches).
2 is not several. Thats the problem with forums, not everyone reads them every day, so trying to get a broad response takes time.
I think it's fine. It's a rule. If you don't like it, houserule it.