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I have a few questions for everyone. I'll be using 90% and 10% as just referance numbers. Just setting a base for rules questions later.
How many agree with these to sentences:
90% of weapons are designed to one thing, cause damage to what your using said weapon against.
10% of weapons are designed to do more then just damage.
Personally, I would say 100% of weapons are designed to cause damage to what you're using said weapon against.
Other than that, they do fall into general categories. But, while plenty of them have their own differences, even if it's as simple as crit range, damage dice, and so on, there are a fair few weapons that have some interesting things above and beyond the norm.
I'd say repetition, when it's there, is probably more for flavor. It's cooler to say "I have a large two-handed Naginata on my back, along with a Katana and Wakizashi at my waist,' rather than, "I've got a spear and two swords."
Anywho though, I am curious what the reasoning for these questions are? I wouldn't say 90% of weapons are exactly the same (again, crit range, multiplier, damage die and special properties make for a lot of variance), but they all do more or less do the same thing. So, what are you looking for?
Maybe he was looking for some idea of how many weapons have other game mechanics than damage (e.g. the trip, blocking, and distracting weapon qualities).
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87% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Looking at only weapons in the CRB, roughly 20% are "designed to do more then just damage" - they also trip, disarm, or both.
The net is an odd case, since it doesn't deal any damage.
100% of my posts rarely make sense.
I...wait, hold on, my head hurts after that one.
Also, I agree with only one of the sentences.
Honestly, not all weapons are going to be super-special weapons with interesting capabilities and unique activities to be performed. There are going to be those basic, simple "SMASH/KILL THINGS" weapons, because there are going to be those simple "SMASH/KILL THINGS" (for those characters, see AM BARBARIAN); that, and quite frankly, some weapons can be that simple, and be just as effective.
I wouldn't sit there and be all like "OH GEE, IT'S THE SAME THING EXCEPT THIS," all the time, because those subtle differences (such as a larger dice damage, or an adjusted damage type, or even the critical multipliers) are what make the weapons the weapons, and also what make them viable versus making it the same exact thing except with different flavor.
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I have a few questions for everyone. I'll be using 90% and 10% as just referance numbers. Just setting a base for rules questions later.
How many agree with these to sentences:
90% of weapons are designed to one thing, cause damage to what your using said weapon against.
10% of weapons are designed to do more then just damage.
I disagree completely. I'd say all weapons are "designed" (or at least capable to a reliable degree) to do a variety of things, and the most common use of them is to deal lethal wounds to an enemy. Some weapons are designed to so some of these things better than others. The mechanics represent this by giving some weapons more damage or larger crit threat ranges or multipliers, bonuses to specific combat maneuvers or other traits.
I'm guessing his question will be something about Trip vs non-Trip weapons.
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Yes this is about trip vs non-trip weapons.
I dont like the ruling on trip and non-trip weapons.
I only found out about this a little over a week ago. I've only been playing Pathfinder since summer 2012.
The ruling that you get to use all bonuses from any weapon on a trip maneuver (spells, feats, ehancements, etc) stripped the need to even have the weapon special feature: trip. It is now utterly useless for the maneuver it was design for, you get not benefit for using a trip weapon to do a trip maneuver (other then being able to drop your weapon if you roll really bad).
The thing is, I'd of had no problem with this ruling had they given the trip feature a +2 to trip.
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I disagree completely. I'd say all weapons are "designed" (or at least capable to a reliable degree) to do a variety of things, and the most common use of them is to deal lethal wounds to an enemy. Some weapons are designed to do some of these things better than others. The mechanics represent this by giving some weapons more damage or larger crit threat ranges or multipliers, bonuses to specific combat maneuvers or other traits.I have a few questions for everyone. I'll be using 90% and 10% as just referance numbers. Just setting a base for rules questions later.
How many agree with these to sentences:
90% of weapons are designed to one thing, cause damage to what your using said weapon against.
10% of weapons are designed to do more then just damage.
Yes I understand what your saying and agree, I was to general in what I said, and I completely agree with the bold parts of what you've said.
But the ruling about trip weapons doesnt take what you said into account.
Why does the change bother you so much? Just don't use Trip weapons. It's pretty simple. Anyway, for every single one of the weapons you listed, "Sweep the leg, Johnny." It makes no sense that I can't trip without a weapon designed with a hook or something.
Here's the hard truth: Combat Maneuvers are not worth doing (except Grapple--sometimes). Maybe at early levels I guess, but for the most part, they're just not a valuable use of an action.
And every weapon is designed to hurt the other guy--it's just that sometimes, "hurting" doesn't involve HPs (like the Net, for example).
I have found ~60% are Damage only. The other ~40% have some sort of special use.
It doesn't become useless. It becomes a safety feature.
The way it works is:
Longsword: You trip them with your foot.
Khopesh/Halberd/Scythe: You trip them with the weapon.
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Interesting. I never noticed how the trip quality was phrased. It would appear that without that quality, a weapon cannot be used to make a trip attempt. I wonder if that's true.
It was true before they made the changes back in late 2011....now you can use ANY weapon to make a trip attack and gain all benefits from that weapon.
The new phrasing is this, straight from the UE:
When you use a trip weapon to make a trip attack, if you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.
Thats all you get from a weapon design to help you trip someone.
It doesn't. I never said it did.
A Khopesh/Scythe is curved you use that curve to trip them. A Halberd has a hook on the back that does the same thing.
The Trip quality allows you to drop the weapon to avoid getting tripped back. It doesn't help you trip them.
It is now a safety choice. My Longsword fighter failing to trip and getting Tripped back means he falls prone. My Khopesh Fighter on the other hand can drop his Khopesh and be safe. By using a Weapon Cord he is perfectly fine.
Have you been in a Sword Fight? Specifically a Sword Brawl.
A Sword Brawl is a specific duel in which you are essentially handcuffed to your opponent by a 10-foot cord/chain and fight using a blade typically a shorter one.
Rare and Deadly duels. Usually used in settle major insults to ones honour. You get tripped you are royally screwed.
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You aim for someone's legs with ANY weapon, you're going to be able to knock them prone. Trip is not useless, as you've specifically said it allows you to drop the weapon instead of being tripped in return. That's a benefit. You've acknowledged it actually does something, even if that something isn't a very big bonus.
This is not a problem, it's completely legitimate. How does a longsword help you trip someone? Well, it's sure as hell better at attacking their legs than trying to use your bare, untrained fists!
But a well trained monk/unarmed fighter doesn't need their fist to trip. I sweeping kick can do the job just as well.
The Longsword can be used to attack the legs with say a Called Shot or it could be used to trip by Feinting an Attack to knock your enemy off balance.
You can trip while wielding any weapon. It doesn't mean you use that weapon to trip them.
And where is this ruling to where you apply the bonus from a weapon on all trip maneuvers?
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Ultimate Equipment, iirc. And you're definitely using the weapon to knock them prone because that's the only logical way to get the weapon's enhancement bonus to your tri[ attempt.
Honestly, you shouldn't be required to have a weapon with the trip ability to be able to trip someone with it. Why wouldn't you be able to knock a dude's legs out from under him with a quarterstaff or a spear? Or a damn dagger, for that matter?
The Trip Quality is required to use the Weapon on Drag/Reposition Maneuvers.
I actually like Trip Weapons because they usually look cooler.
Though a Real-Life Temple Sword looks better than that weird one that is used by the Iconic Monk...
agreed...and i would much rather have a failsafe than a measly +2 bonus anyways...i mean with a disarm weapon you get a +2 but if i fail by 10 or more I still drop the weapon I just had /cry...where as if i tried to trip someone then at least i dont land on my a$$ if i fail lol
as for all combat manuevers being useless...that depends on the type of enemy ur fighting...I had a GM that loved to throw lots of humanoids at us instead of crzy monsters and demons...disarming or tripping a few of them is as good as staggering them
also they did the same stuff to us in return...try having your Greataxe weilding warrior charge an enemy that readied an action to disarm or trip him and makes the check...now he's setting there twiddling his thumbs waiting to pick up his axe next turn /cry more lol
(1)disarming or tripping a few of them is as good as staggering them
(2)also they did the same stuff to us in return...try having your Greataxe weilding warrior charge an enemy that readied an action to disarm or trip him and makes the check...now he's setting there twiddling his thumbs waiting to pick up his axe next turn /cry more lol
1) It might even be better than Staggering them.
2) That is why you get a Weapon Cord.
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But a well trained monk/unarmed fighter doesn't need their fist to trip. I sweeping kick can do the job just as well.
The Longsword can be used to attack the legs with say a Called Shot or it could be used to trip by Feinting an Attack to knock your enemy off balance.
You can trip while wielding any weapon. It doesn't mean you use that weapon to trip them.
And where is this ruling to where you apply the bonus from a weapon on all trip maneuvers?
Here is a quote from a FAQ.
Trip Weapons: If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?
No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.
On a related note, you don't have to use a weapon with the disarm special feature (a.k.a. a "disarm weapon") when making a disarm combat maneuver--you can use any weapon.
Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.
—Sean K Reynolds, 03/15/11
I think it's fine the way it is, what I do wish would have happened is that IF you had Improved Trip, the trip weapon granted a bonus to tripping, since the only effect of the trip weapon (avoid AoO) is negated by the feat. But whatever.
Bolas are a ranged trip weapon. If it doesn't require a trip weapon to make a trip attack, and this ranged weapon can be used to trip, one could infer that any ranged weapon can be used to trip.
Trip property doesn't let you negate AoO it lets you negate being tripped back. Which IIRC requires Greater Trip.
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Ultimate Equipment, iirc. And you're definitely using the weapon to knock them prone because that's the only logical way to get the weapon's enhancement bonus to your tri[ attempt.
Honestly, you shouldn't be required to have a weapon with the trip ability to be able to trip someone with it. Why wouldn't you be able to knock a dude's legs out from under him with a quarterstaff or a spear? Or a damn dagger, for that matter?
A lot of people seem to think that tripping someone is a simple thing to do, but its not, otherwise weapons designed to help you make a trip attack wouldnt have been invented. We're talking RL not just rpg.
How exactly would you use a dagger to trip someone?
Now do you need Trip on a Reach Weapon to trip with it?
Not gonna lie... Your Avatars are freaking me out...
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And your using the term "trip" too loosely.Push them backwards and swing at their throat.
You're using the term "trip" too literally. The combat maneuver is any type of attack that leaves the target prone, and this can be done in numerous ways besides just attacking the legs.
Trip
You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. If you do not have the Improved Trip feat, or a similar ability, initiating a trip provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
If your attack exceeds the target's CMD, the target is knocked prone. If your attack fails by 10 or more, you are knocked prone instead. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has. Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped.
The fact of the matter is that the game says a successful trip maneuver will leave the enemy prone. It DOES NOT say that you knock their feet out from under them, that you stab them in the toe and make them fall over, just that you leave the enemy prone. This means that you can fluff said attack in any number of ways, from pushing them the hell over, knocking their legs out from under them, causing them to lose their balance and fall over, whatever! There is no single canon method of tripping, just a single result that occurs from any of the methods employed to do it.
Now, for whatever reason, you are thoroughly ravaged by the fact that you can trip with a sword or an axe or whatever. The fact of the matter remains that:
- 1. No one else really cares, other than you.
- 2. You're free to houserule it in your home game.
- 3. You're trying to argue something in this game is wrong because it's different in real life.
- 4. The RAW and RAI is explicitly clear in this case.
There really is no argument to be had here. You don't like something that is part of the rules. Them's the brakes.
Well, somebody is tripping.
I giggled.
No in the rules Trip is anything that knocks your target prone.
Tripped by a Ninja...