Critical Hits and Threats

[jmclaus]

I know that the 20 is an automatic hit, but does this also apply to confirmation rolls for critical threats? For example, let's say my total attack bonus is +8 and their AC is 29.

When I attack, my roll is a 20, which must hit them. Even though this wouldn't hit them normally, it has to hit because it's a 20.

Then, I get even luckier, and roll a 20 on my confirmation roll as well. Again, I wouldn't hit unless the "always hit on a 20 roll" applies. So my question is, does that rule still apply - will I score a critical hit in this case or just a normal hit.

[Grick]

jmclaus wrote:

I know that the 20 is an automatic hit, but does this also apply to confirmation rolls for critical threats?

Critical Hits: "When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit."

A natural 20 on an attack roll is an automatic hit.

A critical confirmation roll is an attack roll.

Thus, a natural 20 on a critical confirmation roll should also be an automatic hit, thus confirming the crit.

[jmclaus]

Alright, thanks. I knew it said "attack rolls" but I wasn't exactly sure if a confirmation roll counted as a straight up attack roll. Personally, I would prefer that the always-hit rule didn't apply for confirmation, but obviously this isn't hugely important as it happens 1 in 400.

[Krodjin]

jmclaus wrote:

Personally, I would prefer that the always-hit rule didn't apply for confirmation, but obviously this isn't hugely important as it happens 1 in 400.

If you can only hit with a crit you should definitely get to crit when you hit.

[DMSpelD]

I do not understand the whole "confirming a Crit" thing. Why is a crit only a crit when you confirm it with another dice role? What is the purpose of it?
And if you do not score enough to confirm, the crit is not a crit, but a Threat.... and than it is just a normal hit... Yeah, so, and..????

What I try to understand is the meaning of the whole confirming the crit rule. I don't see the benefit from it in the game or for the gameplay.

[Horselord]

Confirming a crit brings the correct ratio of crits to normal hits when a critical threat is rolled.

If a 20 was an automatic crit and the character needed a 20 to hit it would be impossible for him to score a normal hit. By bringing in a second confirmation roll, it makes those who can hit easier more likely to score a critical than those who have a hard time hitting.

[Krodjin]

It used to be that a natural 20 was always a crit, or double damage... I think the confirmation roll was brought in around the same time as expanded threat ranges. It makes it a little more balanced.

[seebs]

This was introduced with 3E. Rationale:

Imagine that only 20s are crits, and 20 always hits. If you are attacking a creature and need an 11 or better to hit it, you have a 50% chance of hitting it, and a 5% chance of a critical. Assuming you hit it, you have a 10% chance that the hit will be a critical. If you then attack a creature that you need a 19 to hit, you have a 10% chance of hitting it, and a 5% chance of a critical. Assuming you hit it, you have a 50% chance that the hit will be a critical. And if you are attacking something you can only hit on a 20, every hit will always be a critical.

This produces a surprising result, which is that your chances of doing extra damage on a hit are effectively significantly higher when it's harder to hit something.

So the confirmation rule is added to make it so that your chances of getting a critical are comparable to your chances of hitting. If you need a 19+ to hit, and you crit on 19-20, then you only have a 10% chance that a critical threat confirms as a critical, so 10% of your hits will crit. If you need a 11+ to hit, and you crit on 19-20, you have a 50% chance that a critical threat confirms as a critical. Only 5% of your hits will crit, but the chances that a 19 or 20 will confirm go up to 50%. So it's not totally fixed, but it's better.