Hi all,
I've done a search on these forums here and although there are a number of topics on this, uh, topic, I can't find one that actually goes through and does all the math. I tried to advance a monster yesterday and although I think I've got it figured out I'd like someone (or a group of someones) to do it as well and see if I did it correctly.
Consider the challenge made, the gauntlet thrown, and the judges looking disapprovingly on, clicking their pens and looking at their watches....
YOUR TASK
Take a Howler (CR 3) and make it CR7, including (and this is the bit that threw me for several loops) changing it's size from Large to Huge. What is the final stat block for this creature?
Go!
:P
Viperion
How it looks in Hero Lab - hp output is wrong though (bug maybe) it's actually 9d10+36
Unnamed Hero CR 7
XP 3200
Howler
CE Huge Outsider (chaotic, evil, extraplanar)
Init +6; Senses darkvision; Perception +17
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 10, flat-footed 15 (+2 Dex, -2 size, +7 natural)
hp 85 (5d10+36)
Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +5
Defensive Abilities quill defense
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Melee Bite (Howler) +15 (2d6+8/x2) and
. . Quills (Howler) +10 (1d6+4/x2)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks howl (dc 14), pain (dc 16)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 26, Dex 14, Con 19, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 11
Base Atk +9; CMB +19; CMD 31
Feats Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round), Improved Initiative, Power Attack -3/+6, Skill Focus (Perception), Vital Strike
Skills Acrobatics +14 (+26 jump), Climb +20, Fly -2, Perception +17, Stealth +6
Languages Abyssal (can't speak)
Other Gear You have no money!
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Howl (DC 14) (Su) Curse - howl; save Will negates; frequency 1/hour; effect 1 Wis damage; cure 1 save.
Pain (DC 16) (Ex) Foes hurt by quills are sickened until they are removed (Ref neg).
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Quill Defense (Ex) Any creature that strikes a howler with a non-reach melee weapon, unarmed strike, or natural weapon takes 1d4+1 points of piercing damage from the howler's quills and suffers from the howler's pain attack.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
|
Challenge accepted.
Base Monster details:
AC 15 (+2 Dex, +4 Natural, -1 size)
HP 37 (5d10+10)
BAB +5 CMB/CMD +10/22
STR 18 DEX 15 CON 15 INT 6 WIS 14 CHA 11
Damage +8 D8+4, +3 D4+2
CR3 to CR7 With a size increase (which is worth +1)
Step 1. Large to Huge (CR 4)
STR +8 DEX -2 CON +4. AC -2 BAB -2 CMD/CMD +2. NA +3
Gives us:
AC 17 (+1 Dex, +7 Natural, -2 size)
HP 47 (5d10+20)
BAB +5 CMB/CMD +12/24
STR 26 DEX 13 CON 19 INT 6 WIS 14 CHA 11
Damage +11 2d6+8, +9 D6+4
Step 2. CR4 to CR7
Hit dice gains 15+15+15 = 45 hp
BUT 20 extra hit points have already been added by the size increase so extra Hit points should be no more than 25.
Bonus Hit Dice should be some where about 25/5.5 = +4
This gives us:
HD 9d10+36 = 85 (vs 47 + 45 = 92 so a close match)
4 extra HD means one extra stat increase which I will add to CON hence HD is now 9d10+45 = 94 (an even closer match)
The CR 7 Howler profile now looks like this:
AC 17 (+1 Dex, +7 Natural, -2 size)
HP 92 (9d10+45)
BAB +9 CMB/CMD +16/30
STR 26 DEX 13 CON 20 INT 6 WIS 14 CHA 11
Damage +15 2d6+8, +13 D6+4
Is this within Guidelines from CR 3 to 7?
BAB must be within 3 to 6 more : 15 is 8 more so a little high
Damage needs to be within 10 to 14 more:
d8+4 = 8.5, 2d6+8 = 15
d4+2 = 4.5, d8+4 = 8.5
so 13 vs 22 is close to the required +10-14 but a little lower so it kind of evens out with the slightly higher adjusted attack.
As far as skills/feats and abilities - they are probably more in the realm of the specific GMs desire so Im leaving them alone.
The information above has been derived from the following rules sections
a) Monster Advancement
b) monster Creation
c) Creature Types
d) Bestiary 2.
Obviously I have tried to make sure my numbers are correct, but if anything looks out of place or you are unsure please let me know.
Challenge accepted.
The CR 7 Howler profile now looks like this:
AC 17 (+1 Dex, +7 Natural, -2 size)
HP 92 (9d10+45)
BAB +9 CMB/CMD +16/30
STR 26 DEX 13 CON 20 INT 6 WIS 14 CHA 11
Damage +15 2d6+8, +13 D6+4
Your AC should be 16 (10 + 1 Dex -2 size +7 natural)
I added the stat point to Dex as it was at that 'threshold' to gain a bump from a single increase - that also explains the difference between our HPS
:)
Thanks guys, looks like I nearly (but didn't) get it right - one question though:
Nikolaus: You say that Large --> Huge is -2 BaB; The BaB itself is unchanged but the Dex -2 and Size +1 each give a -1 to hit. Is that what you meant?
Cheers
Viperion
|
|
Thanks guys, looks like I nearly (but didn't) get it right - one question though:
Nikolaus: You say that Large --> Huge is -2 BaB; The BaB itself is unchanged but the Dex -2 and Size +1 each give a -1 to hit. Is that what you meant?
Cheers
Viperion
Hi Viperion,
My understanding comes from the table in Monster Advancement called
Table: Size Bonuses and Penalties
The first column is labeled AC/Attack and going from Large to Huge shows a -2.
So my assumption is that regardless of any other adjustments, both the AC and the To Hit have to be adjusted by -2.
Hopefully this helps rather than confuses the issue :)