How to talk Pathfinder

[Arlock Blackwind]

Ok this has been an interesting issue and I highly dought it will be in PFO. what form of speech is their going to be what languages? orc,common,undercommom,draconic,ETC in pathfinder their are alot of diffrent laguages maybe in PFO it would be interesting to see them used. walk into town speaking orc or pasing by a local inn and insult the owner in dwarven when he dosent serve good ale. I can see how everyone will know common but it would be nice to implement others to see some cool RP.

[Jameow]

I would like to see some languages like in SWG, where it comes out to those that inderstand the language, but is jibberish to those that don't, with a few ways to pick up levels of the language and acquire new ones over time...slowly.. so it's not like SWG where you hop in and someone teaches you all the languages immediately.

But there should always be a common.

[Darcnes]

I think that system came from EQ, literally. Same company, same engine. It was a neat bit of flavor, but ultimately you'd have people sitting around in circles spamming macros with random sentences and group chat dumped into a separate window from the interesting stuff.. half hour later you'd be close to maxed.

Definitely room for improvement there.. but it was neat.

[Andius]

Personally a language system is something I feel got a bad reputation for being in WoW.

Ultimately it is an insanely cool RP tool, and one I feel more companies should make use of. I know in actual P&P I sometimes speak in a language nobody but me and the person I am speaking for are intended to understand. Why shouldn't we be able to do the same here?

I really doubt this feature takes long to program.

[Darcnes]

You know.. in EQ, the system leveled from speaking and hearing. In WoW .. it was just there.

In PFO, it could wind up using the same skill system.. and that would be amazing. It really would belong to those few who had taken the time to train it. Time being the most precious of commodities. How to determine which languages are available to pick from though? ;) Sourcebook should have some info on that too though.

[Andius]

Ahhhhhhhhhh! Now I get your reference about spamming macros. And now I can say, why wouldn't it work like every other skill in this game?

I do like the idea of a leveling system for languages, and the EVE system should avoid the shortfalls you saw in EQ.

[randomwalker]

ooh, nice thinking.

"like every other skill" implies

- Normal racial languages (if implemented at all) require some skill training in linguistics and potentially in-game actions (aka. merit badges) like finding teachers, talking, etc.

-Secret or exotic languages are not trainable until you unlock them. Learning druidic may require taking druid badges or living in a settlement with a druid grove. Learning infernal may require getting a good rep with the Hellknights or living in a settlement with Asmodeus temples. Learning ancient Azlanti...

-training languages goes on the expense of training adventuring and/or craft skills, so not everyone will bother learning every language (a very good thing IMO!).
-For now I think that cost of learning additional languages (ie linguistics ranks) should increase with training so that everyone can learn a few common languages but few learn them all (aka. meaningful choice)
-The most exotic languages should require significant pre-requisites (knowing several languages already + hard to unlock teachers)

Further on my wish lists:

-books, player-written books, dungeon wall inscriptions and other lore items should be in specified languages. Mobs may give verbal hints to their behaviour. Being a translator should be a viable (but probably not very lucurative) business option.

[Steve Geddes]

I don't know how similar the experience is, but whenever I played MUDs with languages it was a huge immersion breaker. Every time a string of garbled text rolled past, you didn't think "orcish!" You just thought "annoying spam".

I think it's a better idea in theory than in practise. (Presuming the experiences are at least broadly similar, anyhow...)

[Dario]

Well, I would contend that in a MUD, text is generally the primary method of passing information between the player and the game. Not so much in a full graphic MMO like PFO.

[Andius]

Yeah... one of the few positive experiences I remember about WoW was walking up to another group of dwarves and talking to them in dwarven. Or wandering past a group of night elves chattering in elven. Maybe it annoys you that you can't understand what they are saying, but to me it adds a level of authenticity to the game. Dwarves SHOULD be able to chatter away in dwarven with none but other dwarves and those who have bothered to learn dwarven being able to understand.

And it seemed to me like the gibberish actually was done in a way that each language sounded distinct. A human who only understands common will be able to see a difference between dwarven, elven, and halfling. With dwarven sounding hard and bold, elven sounding smooth and melodious, and halfling sounding simple and light-hearted. That should be done simply enough by making different languages favor certain letters and syllables.

I would favor a time period between 1 week and 1 month for learning most languages. Long enough that most people don't go and pick up a ton of languages, but short enough some people will actually bother to learn new ones.

[avari3]

Languages IMO is one of those details that isn't hard to program and could give PFO a nifty edge if implemented correctly. It is very much an important flavor aspect of the TT game.

[leperkhaun]

language is easy.

You get languages you can speak the same as in table top. You can talk in different languages by just selecting that language.

/orc Just killed that dwarf...hahah like a halfling but fat!

if you can understand orcish

Leperkhaun says in Orcish, "Justed killed that dwarf...haha like a halfling but fat!

others would see

Leperkhaun says something in orcish

Other languages can be trained by training in the appropriate skill so someone could learn other languages if they want to.

[Dario]

One thing I'd like to see is in-line language mixing.

So I could type in common "That blasted <orc>pisspot</orc> stole my ore."

And if you speak orcish, you'd see that, if not, you'd see something like "That blasted hrokpuh stole my ore."

[Drakhan Valane]

Dario wrote:

Well, I would contend that in a MUD, text is generally the primary method of passing information between the player and the game. Not so much in a full graphic MMO like PFO.

How do players in an MMO who have never met communicate? Those players are not likely to be on the same voice chat program.

I like what is being said in this thread! My Bard linguist is getting excited.

[Dario]

@Drakhan, that was in reference to Steve's comment about it being immersion-breaking spam. I was suggesting that it's more disruptive in a MUD where all your world information comes through in text, vice in a world where a significant portion comes through via graphics.

I think a language system is a fantastic idea. I loved it in EQ1.

[Drakhan Valane]

Oh! I see now. Carry on.

[Darcnes]

Inline languages would be a very Firefly-like thing. Interesting conversations.

Would be kinda nice if we were able to hotkey switching languages. Also to have it listed in the chat itself which language is being spoken if you understand it, with a link to switch to that language..

A wretched gnoll says, (Gnoll) "You've ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine."

With the (Gnoll) only appearing if you're not speaking in that tongue.

[Steve Geddes]

Dario wrote:

Well, I would contend that in a MUD, text is generally the primary method of passing information between the player and the game. Not so much in a full graphic MMO like PFO.

Yeah, you may well be right (although I do think "..X says something in elvish" is better than nonsense text, personally).

[Dario]

@Steve, my problem with "X says something in elvish" is that you don't know if it was something short like a command "Duck!" or "Stop!" and something the length of a treatise on the mating habits of the anti-social fungoid.

[Darcnes]

In the latter case, the clear course of action is to feed such a master at discourse to said anti-social fungoids during mating. They're likely to be hungry.

[Steve Geddes]

Dario wrote:

@Steve, my problem with "X says something in elvish" is that you don't know if it was something short like a command "Duck!" or "Stop!" and something the length of a treatise on the mating habits of the anti-social fungoid.

Fair enough. I guess that ultimately, there isnt a perfect way to represent the experience of hearing an unknown language via text.