I originally was playing the AP, but we only got to go as far as like... day 8 or so of book 1. I learned these things rather quickly about the AP: ranks in Climb and Swim are really really going to help at first.
We stopped playing due to the fact that he's a bit of a jerk and I inherited the first two books from him and started reading into the AP.
I have read some of the concerns about the AP, and I shared them. I feel that the underwater dungeons are a bit much, that the island with swarms is also pretty hardcore for the characters at their level and more.
From people with experience in this AP, what are some ways you dealt with some of the challenges to make them possible to overcome, whether or not you removed them, switched them with something else, etc?
Also, what kind of party make-up seemed to work rather well for a group you ran or played in?
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We are still playing the AP. the underwater stuff is fun and you never really get an opportunity anywhere else to play that, so it makes for fun. Also really encourages some feats like endurance and improved swim.
Barbarian, inner sea pirate, alchemist/Demoniac, rogue, wizard, monk/cleric are all doing well at the AP.
I ended up killing off all the NPCs between 2 and 3 because they don't add much after the first AP. they ended up being reanimated as undead crew anyways by the captain before he got trapped in a soul gem.( his fault not mine)
Just have fun with it. Your pirates need to act like scum and scallywags, so this is the AP to let them hem up their antisocial tendencies and go wild.
The lure of treasure, press gang crew and gaining power should appeal.
I originally was playing the AP, but we only got to go as far as like... day 8 or so of book 1. I learned these things rather quickly about the AP: ranks in Climb and Swim are really really going to help at first.
We stopped playing due to the fact that he's a bit of a jerk and I inherited the first two books from him and started reading into the AP.I have read some of the concerns about the AP, and I shared them. I feel that the underwater dungeons are a bit much, that the island with swarms is also pretty hardcore for the characters at their level and more.
From people with experience in this AP, what are some ways you dealt with some of the challenges to make them possible to overcome, whether or not you removed them, switched them with something else, etc?
Players want to avoid heavy metal armor in most cases (mechanically and for role-play purposes) but frontliners will need to find another way to mitigate damage - our brabarian had a very high DR which served him well while our Rogue was a scout who took full advantage of Spring Attack to move in and out of combat while still dealing sneak attack damage.
Spells that affect will saves will be more effective in this campaign than usual due to all of the humanoid foes. Partial spellcasters like Bards, Witches, Summoners, etc. are also more effective due to generally fewer rounds of combat each day - think about it, boarding a ship for piracy is likely the only combat that will happen that day, so no need to hoard spells while finding other ways to be useful.
As for specific characters, I can tell you that those able to get around the inherent limitations of fighting on and in water benefit most - our Master Summoner with his ability to summon air, water, fire and earth elementals saved our party more times than we could count. Bards also do very well due to their ability to buff a large number of people - think Inspire Courage, Haste and Good Hope won't collectively dominate boarding battle?
Our party was a Human Sea Singer Bard, a Human Invulnerable Rager & Urban Barbarian, a Human Knife Master & Scout and a Half-Elven Master Summoner. We had two primary NPC's in Sandara Quinn and Rosie Cuswell join the party as often as not.
I don't know what your time frame for running and completing the AP is nor hwo much you enjoy writing our your own adventures, but I would heartily reccomend the Shackles Guide as an addition to your campaign preparations... we had a lot of side stuff not in the original AP that really made the experience wonderful for all involved and the guide was the resource for most of that.
FWIW in Book 1 we did away with the Rum Ration, the Bloody Hour (though characters were regularly lashed at the moment of their infractions) and the Ghoul Fever/Botfly swarms on the Island and I think all those things were the correct choices. After Book 1 though, there wasn't anything we were presented with that we weren't able to handle. Ah - we also had Aron Ivey as a survivor who could fill us in on th eInfernus backstory and eventually become a member of the ship's crew as a carpenter & shipwright.
One last suggestions - to compensate for the unusual nature of the campaign, our GM gave us all 1 extra skill rank per level, but mandated that it be spent in the skills of Swim or Profession: Sailor.
Good luck and please - if you have any questions keep asking them. This was far and away the best AP I've ever been involved with and I'd love for others to share in that experience.
All this advice definitely looks very helpful. Sea Reaver Barbarian seems perfect for the campaign, and it's good I have a player who likes Barbarians so maybe he'll play one. :P
I will definitely look over the Isles of the Shackles for some more guidance. I also was going to get rid of the Rum Ration like my GM did for us while we played. Might also get rid of the Bloody Hour, getting whipped good or being in the sweatbox seems good enough. Maybe I can multiply the whippings, who knows?
The skill point advice actually kind of makes sense in that... if everyone at least kind of wants to be a pirate or sailor out of the PCs... shouldn't they all have a rank in Swim or Profession (Sailor) almost by default?
I had a character planned to switch out with my original one that made nice use of the Breadth of Experience feat. That is an excellent feat for this AP since Knowledge skills and a handful of Profession skills are pretty frequently used.
Another thing that would be very beneficial in my opinion - have a sit down with th eplayers who are going to be playing through this AP and do two things, the first being to establish a set of expectations or parameters regarding what the AP is going to be about. Examples of this might be:
Everyone who's playing wants to be a pirate in some form or fashion.
Everyone wants to be a Pirate of the Shackles, not some far off sea.
Within the bretheren of the Shackles pirates, they want to rise in power, influence, fame, infamy and disrepute as possible.
It might seem like common sense, but by putting everyone on the same page in the beginning you establish what they have to expect and set the tone for the campaign moving forward... I find doing this makes them feel a lot less 'forced' later on when it comes the things they might be expectedd to do.
Secondly, apart from establishing the basic theme above, ask your characters the following questions and have them think on them for the campaign - everyone doesn't have to feel the same way, but its best if they have given these topics thought before the situations come up:
Generally speaking, what will you do with a captured ship and what will you do with the crew of a captured ship?
How do you feel about slavery?
What is your character's personal motivation for piracy and what is your character's ultimate goal?
This last need not be shared with everyone but should be shared with the GM so that he can take that into account when tailoring encounters. Hope all this helps.
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Another thing that would be very beneficial in my opinion - have a sit down with th eplayers who are going to be playing through this AP and do two things, the first being to establish a set of expectations or parameters regarding what the AP is going to be about. Examples of this might be:
Everyone who's playing wants to be a pirate in some form or fashion.
Everyone wants to be a Pirate of the Shackles, not some far off sea.
Within the bretheren of the Shackles pirates, they want to rise in power, influence, fame, infamy and disrepute as possible.
It might seem like common sense, but by putting everyone on the same page in the beginning you establish what they have to expect and set the tone for the campaign moving forward... I find doing this makes them feel a lot less 'forced' later on when it comes the things they might be expectedd to do.
Secondly, apart from establishing the basic theme above, ask your characters the following questions and have them think on them for the campaign - everyone doesn't have to feel the same way, but its best if they have given these topics thought before the situations come up:
Generally speaking, what will you do with a captured ship and what will you do with the crew of a captured ship?
How do you feel about slavery?
What is your character's personal motivation for piracy and what is your character's ultimate goal?
This last need not be shared with everyone but should be shared with the GM so that he can take that into account when tailoring encounters. Hope all this helps.
I agree with this. Best to set the tone of the adventure. I also usually have some crew die in each battle, as well as allow press ganging job offers from captured ships.
Your players first impulse may be to keep each ship they capture, but they usually don't have enough crew to man it, or enough resources to squib it. But it could cause a headache if they were to somehow man and squib a second ship, thus splitting the party and causing grief for you.
Best to do lots to keep them to one ship
Another thing that would be very beneficial in my opinion - have a sit down with th eplayers who are going to be playing through this AP and do two things, the first being to establish a set of expectations or parameters regarding what the AP is going to be about. Examples of this might be:
Everyone who's playing wants to be a pirate in some form or fashion.
Everyone wants to be a Pirate of the Shackles, not some far off sea.
Within the bretheren of the Shackles pirates, they want to rise in power, influence, fame, infamy and disrepute as possible.
It might seem like common sense, but by putting everyone on the same page in the beginning you establish what they have to expect and set the tone for the campaign moving forward... I find doing this makes them feel a lot less 'forced' later on when it comes the things they might be expectedd to do.
Secondly, apart from establishing the basic theme above, ask your characters the following questions and have them think on them for the campaign - everyone doesn't have to feel the same way, but its best if they have given these topics thought before the situations come up:
Generally speaking, what will you do with a captured ship and what will you do with the crew of a captured ship?
How do you feel about slavery?
What is your character's personal motivation for piracy and what is your character's ultimate goal?
This last need not be shared with everyone but should be shared with the GM so that he can take that into account when tailoring encounters. Hope all this helps.
I agree with this. Best to set the tone of the adventure. I also usually have some crew die in each battle, as well as allow press ganging job offers from captured ships.
Your players first impulse may be to keep each ship they capture, but they usually don't have enough crew to man it, or enough resources to squib it. But it could cause a headache if they were to somehow man and squib a second ship, thus splitting the party and causing...
Ships can be a pain, as can what to do with the crew involved. In our campaign, we usually took only the opposing captain captive to be hostaged through brokers and let the surviving officers and ship's crew go with the mindset that the more this was done, the more shipping we would see through the shackles and the more loot we would be able to capture. Opposing sailors also tended to fight with a lot less ferocity once they realized they weren't fighting for their lives but rather their cargo.
Now, when we needed a ship or captured a particularly good one we didn't have any compunction about taking it... we were a small group, but at different times Rosie took a ship to set out on her own, Mardus Siggs took a ship to set out on his own and in such fashion we eventually built a fleet, and perhaps a quater of the time we sailed in tandem, setting traps for fleeter merchant vessels an drunning them down between us. We tended to burn slaver ships and most Chelish vessels to the waterline with their crew inside - one of the subplots we had going on was our party and in particular our captain's crusade against slavery.
I have read some of the concerns about the AP, and I shared them. I feel that the underwater dungeons are a bit much, that the island with swarms is also pretty hardcore for the characters at their level and more.
As Warrant said, the underwater dungeons are fun and unique. Just make sure the players are aware this is a water campaign and there will be underwater adventuring.
The swarms in the 1st module are too powerful for most groups, but it's easy enough to tone them down (a useful DM skill is knowing when to tone down or power up encounters based on your group's capabilities). My group of 5 had only a cleric that channels negative energy to deal with the swarms. So I reduced the swarms to a medium base with 5hp and doing 1d4 damage. The stockade will be the last encounter my players do in module 1 so I'm leaving that swarm as is.
Funny thing, after running out of channels my players wanted to continue exploring the cornfield so I allowed them to use lit torches as improvised weapons for 1d2 damage. Priceless moment #1 - party makes it out of the cornfield and 3 players are surprised they are still on the beach. Priceless moment #2 - when 2 of these players had to make 8+ fort saves vs disease after resting.
As Warrant said, the underwater dungeons are fun and unique. Just make sure the players are aware this is a water campaign and there will be underwater adventuring.
Just wanted to throw this out there...
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The most interesting thing about the underwater combat is watching the PCs try to deal with not being able to move very fast due to swim speed. Increasing their ability to move underwater really is useful in this campaign is really useful since it allows them to actually be able to cover some ground.
That being said, one of the pirates in one of the adventures killed a Locathah brood, and the enraged Locathah bit out his eye. He went with her to her village to atone and the elder chief shaman repaired his eye by grafting on a large Locathah eyeball (which hurt his charisma) but after making a pact with Haagenti, the PC was also granted gills and the ability to spawn with Locathah, taking the matron as his mate and gaining a swim speed. He can never consummate a relationship with a humanoid any longer, but since he is now a demoniac of Haagenti, I don't think he much cares.
This AP allows for a lot of unexpected turns and DM creativity.
Have fun with it and have fun underwater....there is a big underwater section in at least the first 3 AP's
Ship to ship combat up until the fleet rules in AP 6 (which I played with the author at PaizoCon) can be tedious, so sometimes I hand wave aspects of ship to ship combat in favor of cinematics and shipboard combat.
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I am mixed about this AP. I think it has a real good start, up until halfway about book 2, then I think it kind of tanks and never really recovers. THere are plenty of things in there that my players just wouldn't want to do. And I find a lot of it actually takes MORE prep for me as a DM then just writing an adventure from scratch by myself. I am starting to find this with a lot of Paizo APs unfortunately. Great plots, great depth, great stories, great art, but too little focus on the adventure, too little focus on how we will get pcs from one hook to another, too little focus on why they would want to do things. Not to mention the amount of submechanics and stories in the APs are a real distraction.
Theres just too many distractions, if I have a game session tomorrow, I want to pick up an adventure and say, "yep well do this sounds awesome, let me just add a couple things and change this... perfect". Instead I have to spend hours reading and not really gettin a sense of whats going to happen, learning soooo much about backgrounds and motives and history from 20 years ago that it's too tough to get to the adventure. I'm often left with a headache and a worry that I may have to cancel the gaming session. Like why am I reading about Ship to ship combat and infamy points? THis is an adventure path so I expect an adventure, not a rules expansion for a very minority of play groups who don't have enough rules to keep track of in their game.
Just my two cents, I really appreciated skull and shackles for starting off a campaign with a great idea and getting the pirate thing "started" though. I question why theres so many dungeons, I question a lot of encounters that just assume the players will want to do it "because", I question how many players will really want to be slaver/pirates, I question how the sheer amount of NPC's in some of these adventures is manageable by even the best DM.
I agree completely. I posted a thread on the Adventure Path General Discussion forum about the need for Paizo to include a detailed plot map for the GM to utilize to help steer the adventure, or at least be cognizant of how the pieces fit together without having to labor to fit the various threads together themselves.
If I had an easy flow chart or plot map with the threads outlined contact-chaining how they interact or intersect, I would be extremely happy and less burdened as a GM.
Also perhaps ease up on the long histories of NPCs that will only(?) be encountered at sword-point. If this NPC is someone they can interact with throughout the AP, then having a history written-up makes sense, but if opening dialog consists of 'roll initiative!' Then I am not going to be very chatty.